Professor & patients' paper on the solvable biological challenge of ME/CFS: reader-friendly version
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Blood draw - what are the most important tests at the beginning?

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by MichaelK, Mar 7, 2018.

  1. MichaelK

    MichaelK

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    Hello all,

    I'm the roommate of @MartinDH (ill since August 2017 and in severe condition for 3 weeks) and there will be a blood draw tomorrow. We talked to his docotor that he makes some virus tests which are recommended by @Hip (hope you can help me with the questions below). But I want to be sure that I got everything right regarding the test scope.

    1) Virus:

    a) Herpesvirus

    - Epstein-Barr-Virus (EBV)
    - Human Herpes-virus 6 (HHV-6)
    - Cytomealovirus (CMV)
    - Varicellazostervirus (VZV)
    - herpes simply virus (HSV-1, HSV-2)

    b) Enterovirus

    - coxsachievirus B (CVB)
    - echovirus (EV)

    c) Clamydian pneumoniae
    d) Parvovirus B19
    e) Borrelia igM / IgG

    Did I miss any virus which should be definitely tested?? HHV-7 or HHV-8?
    Is it right that it is normally better to check for antibodies instead of the virus itself?

    2) Nutritions

    What should they definitely check? If there is a list anywhere else and I missed, I would be glad to get the link. Currently he is bedbound and he can only drink, so we bought Fresubin which is more or less "astronaut food". Other forum members told me that this is not the best product. We will change his food. Currently I think there could be an undersupply, but we want to check which nutritions are missing.

    3) Hormones

    Same question.

    What else would you do if that would be the first blood test? Until now there was more or less a standard test in the hospital.

    Thank you in advance!

    Michael
     
  2. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    Hello Michael,

    I will let knowledgeable people answering, but for Borrelia, it seems to me that a Western Blot (or Immunoblot) would be better than a Elisa test.

    You can add also Mycoplasma Pneumoniae.

    Does Martin suffers with muscle pain, or spinal pain or joints pain?

    In case of Joints pain or Spinal pain I would add Yersinia Enterolitica (IgG and IgA).

    A thyroid panel test would be great with fT3, fT4 and TSH as a minimum.

    For nurtition B12, folates of course

    An iron panel
     
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  3. PinkPanda

    PinkPanda Senior Member

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    agree with @pattismith to test B12, folates, iron panel
    also vitamin D
    Doing a mineral status, preferably intracellular status might also be helpful (calcium, magnesium, zinc, sodium,..)
    Coenzyme Q10 levels might also be interesting. Magnesium and ubiquinol/ coenzyme Q10 help some people.

    Don't know if your doctor can do an intracellular mineral status and q10 levels/ has a lab that tests for these things, not every standard lab does these tests. Otherwhise I would definitely test standard magnesium and calcium levels.

    Maybe anyone has an opinion on whether it can be helpful to test lactate and an amino acid status?
    I often had low amino acids in blood tests, but that mainly shows that they might be broken down too much/ metabolized badly, and doesn't necessarily conclude that amino acid supplements will help. I don't tolerate amino acid supplements well..:confused:
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  4. Silencio

    Silencio Senior Member

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    Cortisol might be good.
    My advice would also be — dont overdo it while he’s like this. If the doctors visit is too stressful, don’t do it till he’s a bit stronger. While you are desperate to help him, I can tell you that I have done all of these tests, and tried most of the supplements and drugs referenced on this forum with absolutely zero change. All that helped me improve was time, rest and avoiding stress including noise, conversations etc. Sometimes just knowing someone will be in your room, having someone come in and try to communicate is incredibly stressful when you are that severe.

    I think the main thing is hydration, electrolytes, and the nutrition getting sorted out for him. There will be plenty of time later to do tests and trial remedies. So don’t stress too much about those things right now. Sounds like you are dealing with a massively difficult situation as it is.

    Good luck and we are all thinking about you and him.
     
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  5. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    agree with pinkpanda that you need a test for electrolytes to control nutritionnal status.
    You need to add Potassium as well.

    L Lactates and D lactates are usefull as well but D Lactates tests are not easy to find
     
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  6. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Virginia, USA
    Hepatitis C. I'd also look for toxoplasmosis.

    To start with, I think it's better to go with antibodies. To detect the virus itself you usually need PCR and if the virus is not in the blood, PCR won't find anything.
     
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  7. *GG*

    *GG* senior member

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    Concord, NH
    I clicked on this link to see if it was with a diagnosis or not? Seems like you are asking "the most important" after a crash or downturn of health, correct?

    So many threads on this site, would be better if people could be more descriptive, would make the site more valuable to users.

    GG
     
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Yes, you have listed all the viruses and bacteria that ME/CFS specialists usually test for. They usually use antibody tests rather than PCR tests.

    In the case of coxsackievirus B and echovirus, Dr Chia found that only antibody tests using the neutralization method (such as the ARUP Lab tests) are sensitive enough to reliably detect CVB and echovirus.
     
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