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Bartonella solutions other than antibiotics?

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Tiger Lily 813, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. Tiger Lily 813

    Tiger Lily 813 Senior Member

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    Hi all, I've struggled big time with antibiotic treatment for lingering bartonella symptoms. Doctors in the past have not wanted me to do it, they knew I'd react unfavorably.

    The antibiotic combination that I only began taking was doxycycline and azithromycin. I had a lot of crawling on my skin- it was too much, also had other malaise and mild allergy symptoms.

    In the past I made great strides in treating bartonella (without catastrophic side effects) with MMS and later with niacin. Also the zapper (terminator type I think?) helped somewhat.

    Please share anything else that may help beat it way down without the mayhem of the antibiotics, thanks!!
     
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  2. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Pretend it doesn´t exist?

    On a serious note, surely there must be a herbal protocol you can try?
     
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  3. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    You might look into 10 Pass ozone treatment.
     
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  4. Tiger Lily 813

    Tiger Lily 813 Senior Member

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    :) I think I tried a few herbal supplements, and I tried the banderol/samento tinctures too... if anyone has had success with specific herbals, please do share!
    My impression has been that only those that treat aggressively with antibiotics get better to the point of full eradication, so when my latest doctor prescribed them I really wanted to do it.
    I'm trying to find a place to test a rife machine maybe. Even if it would work though, it's a considerable expense, so :(
     
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  5. Tuskentank

    Tuskentank

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    What symptoms do you have from Bartonella?

    I know Teasel root and Allimed was doing something for me, herxed like crazy on 3rd day, but it was making my SIBO worse, so I had to stop. I started too strongly though, 6 drops X 3 times a day.
     
  6. TrialAndError

    TrialAndError

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    Glad you moved out of the mold-y apartment. I just saw something on the 'net yesterday that mold and Bartonella symptoms are very similar.

    Back to your questions:

    - Indiana Jones actress Karen Allen is on YouTube, saying a zapper cured her end-of-hope chronic Lyme in a matter of days, but at a strict timed protocol at a clinic, using a timing method that is contrary to the mfg's instruction manual. Allen also said that she lent her machine to up to 30 people, and most of them were cured of Lyme as well. Cured, fully cured, completely cured, no remission -- according to her YouTube radio interview.
     
  7. TrialAndError

    TrialAndError

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    Did you see the incredible New York Post article on the famous model, Yolanda Hadid and her last-resort plunge into "poop" theraby experiements in her home/lab?

    This article details the number of famous doctors and clinics around the world -- none of which worked. Including ozone.

    Dr. Mercola has a good opinion of poop as medicine, i.e. fecal implantation.
     
  8. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    There are different treatment modalities that use ozone. 10 pass ozone is the strongest. It is very rare in the US with only a few clinics doing it. I do know patients who have done it and had good results.

    This site describes it with a link about Lyme:

    http://thepowerofozone.com/ozone-high-dose-10-pass/

    Dr. Robert Rowan is the US leader in oxidative therapies. He has a few YouTube videos. Here's a link with him discussing oxidative therapies with Dr. Mercola:

     
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  9. TrialAndError

    TrialAndError

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    Thanks. The "oxidation" treatment seems counter to all the anti-oxidants that I'm taking.

    Confusing.

    Btw, I prefer to listen to patients who got cured (e.g. Karen Allen -- if you know other real people who got cured, please post, since those are good to know) rather than doctors/healers.
     
  10. TrialAndError

    TrialAndError

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    Look into my post re Rife machine "playback" on YouTube in the Hokey Rife thread. Free Rife machine!!
     
  11. TrialAndError

    TrialAndError

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    TigerLily - see my post tonight re free Rife machine(s) frequencies audio playback on Youtube. Try it, and tell us all what happened to your symptoms. Lots on YouTube, for many health problems!! You'll like the price -- free. And you won't need a credit card.
     
  12. TrialAndError

    TrialAndError

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    There's a very long and detailed blog by an Irish writer with the URL containing "delusionalinsects" (delusional insects). It's exceptionally detailed and very well put together. It contains his personal medical history and the general failure of Western Medicine. And much, much more. At the end, he covers Rife machines and other electronic/electric therapies including ones from France that I've never heard of. I would encourage everyone to read his blog. There is an contents index, so you can jump what interests you.

    His delusional insects parallels the "it's all in your head" diagnoses by some MD's.

    This blog is really a free book that iis worthwhile.
     
  13. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I don't think ozone treatment is capable of killing any pathogens in the body, especially not via auto-hemotherapy. Dr Velio Bocci has written quite a bit on the health effects of ozone, but he has never mentioned any pathogen killing effects. Indeed he points out that the body's own antioxidant defenses will protect pathogens from the direct bleaching action of medically administered ozone.

    Perhaps if you take high enough doses of ozone you may overcome the antioxidant defenses, but at that point, the ozone may start causing DNA damage.
     
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  14. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    @Hip There's been a good amount of research beyond Dr. Bocci's on ozone killing viruses and bacteria.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312702/

    I have spoken with 2 Lyme patients and 1 EBV patient who were greatly helped by 10 pass ozone after trying many other treatments - they say it's the thing that helped the most.

    http://thepowerofozone.com/does-ozone-kill-ebola/

    http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=30842

    https://robert-rowen-md.com/cuban-d...ith-inexpensive-treatment-by-robert-rowen-md/

    https://www.healmindbody.com/ultraviolet-blood-irradiation-ozone-combination-therapy/

    http://www.sophiahi.com/why-use-ozone-therapy-by-dr-sarah-carnes/

    The way that I've seen it used is to provide an intense burst of ozone to kill the bugs and stimulate the immune system, but keeping antioxidant levels sufficient the rest of the time to achieve balance between oxidative and antioxidative states.
     
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  15. edawg81

    edawg81 Senior Member

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    Ive used pre mixed herbal tinxures like BLT, MC-BAR to combat bart. They havent helped me much but it was worth a try. They also make one called A-Bart but i have not tried this. A lot are based on buhner or cowden herbal protocols.
     
  16. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Well if could provide a link to this research, that would be good. We are not talking about ozone killing pathogens as a drinking water disinfectant, which we know it does. Nor topical use of ozone to disinfect wounds, which also works.

    We are talking about ozone killing pathogens systemically when it is absorbed into the bloodstream. I have not seen one paper demonstrating ozone has an anti-microbial effect in the body.



    Dr Velio Bocci's theory is that the benefits of ozone therapy come from the transient oxidative stress that ozone places on the body. Bocci says that this stress causes an upregulation of antioxidant enzymes, appearance of oxidative stress proteins, and probable release of stem cells (see the bottom of this post for details).

    There is very little research into the mechanism of action of ozone, and Bocci's theories are one of the few attempts to understand what ozone does in the body.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  17. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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  18. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @Learner1, none of those links provide any evidence that ozone can kill pathogens in the body.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  19. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    @Hip i think you'll just have to try it.

    I've spoken to 3 real live patients, one a close friend, 2 with Lyme and coinfections and 1 with chronic EBV who've tried everything else and all swear that 10 pass ozone worked better than anything else they've tried.

    I also trust my doctor, who carefully researches everything he does - he's extremely careful about what he brings into his clinic. He's convinced that it is a valid treatment modality and recently brought a 10 pass machine into his clinic.

    I'm very leery of antibiotic use - they screw up people's microbiomes and bacterial community throughout their bodies. Antibiotics are becoming less effective - in the US, 70% of antibiotics sold are for use in animals raised for food.

    We need other modalities.

    Ozone and UVBI are modalities worth considering. I certainly don't believe they will solve every problem, but they are worth considering in treating infections.
     
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  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    We may need more antibacterial compounds, but that does not mean ozone is one of them. Medical ozone has been around 150 years, and was available well before the discovery of antibiotics. If ozone had been effective against bacterial infection, we would not have had all those terrible deaths from bacterial infections that regularly occurred before antibiotics like penicillin became widely available in around the 1940s.



    Anything that kills bad bacteria will probably kill the good bacteria as well. I always take probiotics with any antibiotic treatment I take.



    I am not denying that ozone may be helpful. I have tried it myself, using a very inexpensive and easy to implement home method described here (this method costs no more than around $50, the price of an ozone machine). Ozone treatment will likely reduce reactive oxygen species in the body, and may even stimulate stem cells, so you may expect some benefits. But that does not imply that ozone is antiviral or antibacterial.
     

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