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B6 Dosage Help

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by GreenMachineX, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX Senior Member

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    Recently I’ve been able to determine that without enough b6/p5p, I develop a headache by 3pm that lasts until I go to sleep (turns into a migraine without any b6 at all). 5mg p5p isn’t enough because that’s what is in my multi, but even increasing to 15mg p5p gives me side effects like sleep disturbances and stimulation.

    My thought is p5p just isn’t for me since there isn’t anything less than 50mg tablets and breaking into quarters isn’t working or eighths which is too small to break correctly.

    Is there an equivalent amount of regular b6 I should try if I needed a total of 10mg p5p a day, what would that be in regular b6?
     
  2. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Not a doctor, but B2, riboflavin, which helps activate B6 -- converts it into p5p -- has been shown in clinical studies to reduce the number of migraines in several studies.
     
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  3. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX Senior Member

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    Thanks. I’ve been wondering if I should increase my multi dose too which has a fair balance of everything, but nervous to because of how poorly I’ve reacted to minute changes in protocol these past 8 weeks. I’m using Thorne’s Basic Nutrients III only at 2 caps a day, considering 3. That would bring me up to 5mg p5p, 225mcg m-b12, 500mcg methylfolate, and 5.5mg riboflavin.
     
  4. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    I've had a time that I needed more B6 then in my Bcomplex. I bought thornes P5P and fiddled around with the caps until I had a good balance, so I emptied one cap in three or something ( dosage to be decided in my case by sleep quality, I still do not know how that worked, but help it did)

    https://nl.iherb.com/pr/Thorne-Research-Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate-180-Veggie-Caps/18472

    I think they had a smaller package at the time....
     
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  5. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX Senior Member

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    Thanks.

    Couple more questions: it’s been 4 days since I stopped the p5p and I still wake up at 3am WIDE awake. I’ve read p5p has a half of 2 weeks; could I still be experiencing too much of it? It’s weird because I feel fine during the day and go to bed okay, but BOOM wired at 3am (thereabouts). I usually wake up once before that around 1am but can go back to sleep. Is there a chance too much p5p is dropping my blood sugar in the middle of the night and the 1am wake up is like a warning? Does that make sense?
    I’m going to try to drink an oat/protein shake at the “warning” wake up tonight and see if it helps, and probably take more melatonin at that time.

    I took 2 grams taurine, 200mg theanine, 800mg lemon Balm, 1mg melatonin and 100mg niacin between 3 and 4:30am and it didn’t help me get back to sleep. At 5:15am I had the idea of more salt so I took 500mg sea salt and 1 cap valerian and went back to sleep for a half hour. Maybe coincidental.
     
  6. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    I don't know.... Im just poor lille ol me...

    But I tend to wake up in the night too (although rarely having headaches anymore)
    And three o'clock is my favorite waking time too.

    For me ( so not any reason that it is the same for you) a disbalance in the liverphases is the root of this. Phase one goes to fast ( or phase 2 too slow) result being that toxines are dumped in my blood and I wake up, symptoms sweating, heartfrequency goes up. When it's real bad I get nauseous and muscletension goes up. Happily in general it's not that bad anymore.

    If the low bloodsugar is not the answer, you may have a look at liverphases

    ( as an afterthought, if you would up the dose of your multi, take a look at ( your) critical things. For me that would be folate and zinc)
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  7. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX Senior Member

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    What do you use for the liver detox? NAC? I have that but have been scared to use it because of a recent study discussing possible pulmonary arterial hypertension and I’m already prehypertensive.

    What do you mean about the folate and zinc? Make sure it’s not too high or not enough? I take 20-30mg zinc picolinate daily. My methyl folate dose now is 300mcg or so daily and if I increase to 3 caps it’ll be 500 mcg. The label on the multi says to take 3-6 a day but I’ve gone through overmethylation hell with too much b6/folate/b12 and careful about too much!
     
  8. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    Nothing yet, I keep to my diet ( except for the coffee which is very bad for me..cause it pushes phase 1). Methylcobalamine seems to help, lately it becomes much easier to fall asleep again.

    I must first stop the coffee and fix the gut. i think thats the root. + now that the methylcobalamine seems to work such wonders, I think it's a methylation problem plain and simple. So I go for that first.


    I meant, take care you do not go too high with vitamins/minerals that you are sensitive to.
    folate indeed take care not to overmethylate,

    and zinc is my issue, I rarely hear people about it, but can't handle it. Soon I'll try again, and start with the amazing dose of about 1 mg. That was too much the last time I tried, but maybe things have changed now.

    I meant, everybody has his/her own issues with some supplements ( I mean, I do very good on glycine, others get sick on it) each body its own regimen.

    hope you're sleeping issues will clear up soon, it's awful, I know :cry:
     
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  9. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX Senior Member

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    What kind of reaction to zinc do you have?

    How much of the methylation vitamins do you take?
     
  10. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    There is no substitute for getting a good nutrient status test to base your protocol on. Its possible to really me as yourself up experimenting. Its not a matter of "my body likes or doesn't like X."

    All of these nutrients work together in synergy, and some, like P5P do many things. P5P is used in heme production, sphingolipid production, and methylation. If you're short of it, things stop working. I'm on 350mg a day of P5P, so 5mg sounds quite timid, but I also take B2 and other nutrients that work with it.

    NAC can be very helpful as a precursor to glutathione. One article about one supplement shouldn't put you off it - its a very useful supplement. Glycine is needed, too, as well as glutamine. Glutamine can help heal your gut lining and it can make GABA, but too much can be overstimulating.

    My latest sleep through the night successes have come from taking citrulline and ornithine, which are related to nitric oxide production.

    This test is the most useful one I've seen. My fovtorvorders it for me every 9-12 months and it has been quite valuable in adjusting my nutrients, and solved a lot of mysteries over time. Click on Sample Reports yo see what it tests:

    https://www.gdx.net/product/nutreval-fmv-nutritional-test-blood-urine
     
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  11. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX Senior Member

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    I just started citrulline again, and was experimenting with agmatine but stopped that as I think it actually elevated my blood pressure. Citrulline brings it down.

    My doctor doesn’t use insurance so I’d have to pay out of pocket for that test anyway. It’s pretty expensive isn’t it?
     
  12. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX Senior Member

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    Just got my mthfr lab back and negative for the mutation. Guess I don’t need to be fooling with the Methyl forms?

    Also interesting to see my epinephrine too high. Probably from too much p5p?
     

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  13. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    @GreenMachineX , 2 years ago I had a total crash on zinc, from mild to severe in a day.
    so I'll be very careful to try that one. I'll start with 1 mg.

    Just started taking b12, something is working well, then found this forum and texts on methylation. I'll go very slow, I have a thread about it, soon I'll post how I do.
     
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  14. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX Senior Member

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    Sounds good.

    I still can’t find the right balance, and not even sure what’s causing what anymore. I’m starting to think I’m magnesium deficient or calcium deficient due to the symptoms, but neither make sense due to my intake.

    The worst thing is this strange breathing sensation and occasional laryngospasm or lump in my throat feeling. But I also get a feeling that my legs or feet are falling asleep and sometimes in my right arm as well. Also the weird skin sensitivity is back. At least my histamine levels are down and I’m sleeping decently finally.
     
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  15. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    yeah...it's sort of a guessing game. I've decided that I'll go testing later on. For now I am sure of some deficiencies so try to do them first.

    that I have too, the other things not, and still very careful not to trigger these histamine things...just posted on my B12 threead.
     
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  16. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX Senior Member

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    Gotcha. I was just thinking about the Life Extension b6 and magnesium RBC test but it would cost $150, which I have, but I’ve spent so much recently it’s crazy.
     
  17. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    IMO zinc should (almost) never be taken alone. Freddd knows this all too well as he took 50mgs/day for years, and ended up with a significant copper deficiency.
     
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  18. bjl218

    bjl218 Brian Levine

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    FYI, Life Extension just started their yearly blood test sale so these tests might be cheaper right now.
     
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  19. bjl218

    bjl218 Brian Levine

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    I also have problems with B6 (any form). On my NutrEval I have very low B2 and somewhat low B6. I've read most of the B2 threads and plan to start supplementing with B2 to see if that helps me tolerate B6 and other B's. From another thread I noted that B6 converts kynurenic acid (calming) to quinolinic acid (excitatory). My NutrEval shows that my kynurenic acid is towards the top of the good range and my quinolinic acid is <dl. I wonder if part of the reason I'm sensitive to B6 is that my quinolinic acid is so low that I'm sensitive to anything that might raise it even a little.
     
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