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B12 Neuropathy?

Discussion in 'Peripheral Neuropathy' started by GreenMachineX, Mar 15, 2018.

  1. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX

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    I’ve been experiencing bizarre pins and needles in mostly my right arm and both legs/feet as well as a strange skin oversensitivity that I’ve experienced only a couple times before (pretty sure these were times when I stopped my multivitamin). The pins and needles started a week after stopping absolutely everything (except magnesium), and shortly after angular cheilitis showed up as well. Could a b12 deficiency show up in a matter of days of stopping my b12? How long would it take symptoms to go away after starting up again? I’m nervous about going too high because I’ve triggered some crazy things recently that resulted in ER trips and terrible terminal insomnia resulting in 3 hours sleep a night which results in me getting sick every time.

    This next question I hope I describe correctly: if b12 causes paresthesia, does the tingling show up randomly, or in areas more prone to it? In other words, I believe I have very tight muscles from working out and it’s easy for them to start to fall asleep. When these symptoms kicked off, my left arm was doing it too but after stretching (shoulder rehab, due to impingement syndrome) my left is fine now and it only happens in my right arm. Is that how paresthesia works or is it definitely only due to impingement and tight muscles?

    Thanks! Any advice or any thoughts or experiences welcome!

    I’m currently taking 10mg p5p, 200mcg methylfolate and 300mcg b12 as of today and yesterday.
     
  2. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    B12 doesn't work in a vacuum. It works with other nutrient cofactors, including B2, B3, B6, folate, magnesium, potassium, and amino acids.

    Too much, or more likely, too little B6 can cause neuropathy and B2 deficiency is linked to angular chelitis. Other nutrient deficiencies can cause them, too.

    A thorough nutrient test, like a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval, might help you find deficiencies or imbalances.
     
  3. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX

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    Thanks. I’m unsure what you mean by working in a vacuum?

    I’m experimenting with the dosages of all the b’s but I’m pretty sure I’m getting enough b2. B6 confuses me because I thought 25mg p5p was giving me insomnia, but as of last night, 95% sure it was the zinc picolinate actually. Taking 10mg p5p now.
     
  4. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    It doesn't work by itself. It works with many other nutrients. If you're short of something, it bottlenecks the whole process. This picture gives you an idea of the various nutrients that work together in the methylation process...
    [​IMG]
    https://goo.gl/images/svcxDn
    I honestly don't know how you can experiment and figure it out... I'm taking 350mg of P5P. I would have never figured it out experimenting.

    B6 is used in heme and sphingolipid synthesis, as well as the methionine cycle and glutathione production. If you're short, any of those processes can be compromised.

    Having good lab work can save a lot of guessing and fighting mysterious symptoms.
     
    GreenMachineX likes this.
  5. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX

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    You’re right. I probably need to just get some lab work done. I might just get a b6/folate/b12 blood test from Life Extension first because that’s only $90 or so and I’m pretty sure that’s where my problem is. $350 for the Genova NutraEval just isn’t do able right now.

    My apprehension with the blood work angle is that for years I took other multivitamins and supplements without any issue. But I went overboard on the p5p and Methyl B’s just a couple months ago, then cold turkey off of everything, and now I can’t seem to get back to point A. It’s like I permanently changed something by taking 100mg b6/p5p, 1200mcg methylfolate and 1200mcg m-b12 and 400mg TMG for just a couple weeks and going back to what I took 2 years ago (or even 6 months ago) doesn’t work anymore. I just don’t get it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
  6. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    You really need to know what your status is for B2, B3, B6, methionine, glutamine, glycine, cysteine, B1, and molybdenum are, too.

    People focus too much on folate and B12. They're important, but many of the unhappy symptoms people experience are due to a lack/imbalance in the other nutrients.

    In my case, my need for B2, B6, and glycine are enormous. I couldn't have figured it out without testing, as the ratios I need were so wildly out of the normal range.
     
  7. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    I'm in the same situation that I couldn't afford a NutraEval - it's not just the one-time 350,-, but because that has to be done repeatedly after dose-adjustments to get anywhere.

    The problem in my case with serum testing B6, B9 and B12 is, that they are all sky high above normal. But by slowly titrating the doses up over years - along with all co-factors - homocysteine still hasn't consistently stayed in a more healthy range. Measuring RBC folate, B6, or Holo-Transcobalamine out of my pocket hasn't added anything of value.

    Having titrated gradually up to 170 mg/d over the last 9 years (with different ratios of different B6s), I probably will figure it out one day. Just takes so much more time with my cautious slow approach... On the other hand, haven't had any bad side-effects (except a bid of a chaw-tension above a certain dose of choline).
     
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  8. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Measuring serum levels will show high since you're taking the supplements. FIGLU and methylmalonic acid (MMA) are better for folate and B12. My serum B12 was recently >1999 but MCV and MMA were high, indicating deficiency and that the stuff in my serum isn't getting into my cells.

    Also homocysteine and an amino acid panel, which are standard LabCorp tests, can be useful.

    The Easy Pay amount with Genova is currently $199 in my area.
     
    GreenMachineX likes this.
  9. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

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    Taking too much of one B will cause a deficiency in another B, which may be why you have angular cheilitis. You might have a B2 deficiency, which you wouldn't have if you hadn't been taking high amounts of the other B vitamins. Angular cheilitis can also indicate an iron deficiency.

    I would stop taking all B vitamins and see if the angular cheilitis goes away.
     
    GreenMachineX likes this.
  10. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX

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    Thanks everyone. I haven’t taken any vitamins in 3 days and actually, the insomnia is gone, the weird skin hypersensitivity is drastically improved, and I think the angular cheilitis is improving as well (just more slowly). But, even then, I wasn’t taking any b vitamins by themselves. The doses I’ve mentioned were actually in various multivitamins I have here so I was getting all of them together. Guess it was still throwing something off?

    Would being off the vitamins for a few days and then getting serum blood levels show a more accurate level or will they still be off the charts since I was supplementing ?
     
  11. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    The serum values will still be high for awhile.
    I do NutrEvals without stopping supplements and they still show deficiencies if there are any.

    Not taking B vitamins is not the answer. If you had that big a reaction, something is definitely out of balance. B vitamins are essential in methylation, hemoglobin synthesis, sphingolipid synthesis, DNA replication, immune system and endocrine function.
     
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  12. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX

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    Yeah, I’m just letting trying to let some symptoms resolve by stopping it all then I know if it’s related to that or something else. I’m going to start a different multi that appears more balanced overall.
     
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  13. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Sounds like a good plan. Best of luck to you!:hug:
     
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  14. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Did you get adverse reactions from going overboard, or only after going cold turkey off everything?

    With this later reply you seem to imply the first, but with the former it seemed otherwise?
     
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  15. GreenMachineX

    GreenMachineX

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    I did have adverse reaction to going overboard; an overmethylation nightmare. It felt like I took a stimulant, with anxiety, chest pain, nausea/heartburn, palpitations, even went to the ER for it. Then cold turkey was horrible too. But the weird thing is, everything I read implies overmethylation should reduce histamine but I also had allergic reactions I never had before during that time.
     
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  16. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    Yep, this is the reaction I had as well, minus the ER bit. I think there is little to no evidence to support the idea that methylation has anything to do with this disease. The parasthesia was probably not caused directly by B12 but by one of the downstream effects of increased methylation or other changes that this supplement may trigger.
     
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