New Atmosphere, New Vision: Gibson and Whittemore Kick Off Invest in ME Conference 2016
Mark Berry reports on Dr. Gibson's introduction and Dr. Whittemore's keynote speech, at the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London.
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Asprin Therapy

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by undcvr, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

    Asprin Therapy

    I have wanted to write about this for awhile now. It was something I tried ( and still occasionally do go back onto ) and took a while back ago before I had access to AVs or ARVs. I felt that it helped alot and for something so cheap and affordable it is definitely worth trying.

    The theory behind it is very similar to those on Heparin/Coumadin(Warfarin) therapy (blood thinners) or even those that benefit from enzyme therapy, even if they use the enzymes only as NSAIDs. As the theory goes, the human body has up to 4 different proteins assigned as blood clotting factors and only one to thin the blood out. At any given time the body is more prone to hyper instead of hypo coagulation. Using Asprin as a preventative against strokes and blood clots is no coincidence, neither is the fact that cardiovascular disease is the number one killer in the US. Evolutionarily, we needed more blood clotting factors because being wounded and injured often were very common occurrences not too long ago. But now that most of us are living civilian and pacifist lives, what we need more of is supplements to keep our blood flowing smoothly, freely and thinly. The heart has to work less hard and blood vessel walls are less at risk of bursting from pressure.

    Most people with CFS/ME and Lyme have hypercoagulation. I am going to go out one step further and say all of us do, it is just part of the illness. Alot of also seemingly healthy people do too, it is the reason for all those cardiovascular related deaths. I cannot tell you how often I read stories on PR where someone writes that they went to the doctor for blood work and the blood was so thick that they were unable to draw blood. That is like a heart attack waiting to happen. Imagine the heart trying to push the blood, thick as a sludge, around the body. Not pretty.

    Further there is enough 'alternative' research out there to show that many viruses, bacterias and mycoplasmas throw up fibrinogen around themselves to evade the immune system as our B cells troll the blood. Thick meshes of protein that confuse the immune system and thicken the blood, slowing everything down.

    Many of you with CFS/ME/Lyme that are already on Heparin therapy will understand what I mean when I talk about the level of relief you get from getting Heparin shots. But Asprin also has pain relieving properties and does more. It is also a broad spectrum antiviral and bacterial. Asprin like Heparin will continually thin the blood, directly reducing platelet count and fibrinolysis, allowing the immune system to work in a less crowded room. Don't get me wrong fibrinolysis is a natural and very important process in the body but too much of it screws up the inflammation response and can lead to rheumatoid arthritis (Wiki).

    I also believe that Asprin will make whatever pathogen therapy you are on work even better as it will help the immune system by revealing pathogens that the immune system cannot see. Without being able to get to these pathogens that are hidden behind these fibrin layers they can always surface again when they sense that it is safe to do so aka the inflammation response is triggered again. You may never be able to fully recover without getting to all of them.

    My own personal experience with Asprin is quite interesting: The recommended limit on the box is 4 gm every 24 hrs. I was taking 2 gm everyday for 6 months to a year. I remember them well, those were good months and I definitely recovered some while on it. All this was before Valcyte. By the time I started taking Valcyte at 900 mg 2X a day, I could not tolerate Asprin at the 2gm a day dose anymore. Small bruises were beginning to show up here and there, I cut back on the Asprin and take about 325-500 mg.

    For something this cheap, effective and useful I definitely recommend trying it as a first line of defense thing instead of as an alternative consideration. I have a friend with HIV that I recommend that he takes Asprin as well as LDN even though he is on ARVs. To me it just makes alot of sense.

    Some considerations about Asprin:

    As you may know Asprin is extremely acidic, much like stomach acid. It has to be taken along with food or protein where it will actually help break down the foods we eat in the meal. Not a bad side effect. And for those that still cannot tolerate it, the tablets should be coated (at least) and even better enteric coated. Some pple might need to take Licorice with it to stimulate a coating to protect your stomach lining. If you are sensitive to the blood pressure effects of Licorice then you might prefer taking it in the DGL form.
    Still some will not be able to tolerate it at all or even be allergic to Asprin, Reye's Syndrome. In such a case, I would recommend digestive enzymes. This time they MUST be Enteric-Coated. All enzymes are the same, even those like Lumbrokinase and Nattokinase, it is just that Pancreatin is the cheapest. Again I am recommending Solgar's Pancreatin. It is enteric coated and at 1/8th of the price of Wonbezyme, it cannot hurt to try it. Throughout my years of having CFS I have often thought of cheap ways to try and tackle this disease and if you push through all the fluff and hype out there, you do have options and all is not as bad as it looks sometimes. The important thing for PWC to remember is that we have to be on certain therapies and protocols much longer than what is generally considered a usual length of time. This is very important whether it is an AV or a natural supplement.

    Another thing to think about is that we still do not know all that Asprin does in the body. Something that I have been thinking about is how similiar the properties of Asprin is to Citric acid. Citric acid becomes alkaline intracellularly and because it is able to raise the pH it can deactivate pathogen processes within the cell. This is just something I have been thinking about with Asprin too but have no way to prove it.
  2. Marg

    Marg Senior Member

    Wetumpka Alabama
    Aspirin therapy

    What about fish oil or even better krill oil to keep blood thin? I have one combination one that includes evening primrose oil. I also take a natto supplement. I know of too many people that got into troulbe with stomachs with asprin.
  3. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

    I've not had any luck with asprin/ Heparin etc. No improvement either in health or in the action of drugs I've used.

    When Rich VKB gets back it may pay to ask him about Asprin and Citric acid as he wrote some reply to someone on Citric Acid a while back.
  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

    Aspirin can be quite bad if you're intolerant of dietary salicylates.
  5. undcvr

    undcvr Senior Member

    My experience with fish oils have been so so ( is that how you spell it ? )

    I have been taking it for as long as I can remember, about a tbsp a day avg about 1500mg of EPA and DHA each. At best the most I can say is that its effects are subtle, something like LDN. It seems to work in the background and best when taken along with something else.

    My reasoning for Asprin is that it is a very cheap and useful drug. I think the cost of a treatment is a very big factor with this illness and there is always the enzymes that do the very same thing Asprin does.
  6. john66

    john66 Senior Member

    Good post, I just wanted to add that chondroitin sulfate has heparin like properties and is cheap as well. A doctor int he 60's explored its use as a preventative/restorative for heart disease. Will Wong has several articles and podcasts about enzymes and all that they do for you. Since I have familial hyperlipidemia, I have always been aware of and on the lookout for issues and compounds that will help in the coagulation/hypercoagulation area. Thanks again for the post.
  7. glenp

    glenp "and this too shall pass"

    Vancouver Canada suburbs
    This is a good reminder for me to start again. I usually take a baby aspirin daily hoping that it acts as a preventive, when I seem to bleed longer after a nic then I stop taking it for awhile. No apparent strokesfor me so far - pushing 61

  8. valentinelynx

    valentinelynx Senior Member

    Didn't your ears ring like crazy?
    Mine ring if I take any aspirin.
  9. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

    "About 30% of CFIDS patients are afflicted with chlamidia. It thought that aspirin strongly inhibits this pathogen. One case took ten days using 325 milligrams per meal to heal. Aspirin is not free of disadvantageous side effects."

    I found the above paragraph in this article , and am giving aspirin a shot :
  10. Tristen

    Tristen Senior Member

    Northern Ca. USA
    I experience mild effects from ASA, but much more so from NSAIDS like Ibuprofen. All of them are blood thinners, but I was thinking the response to these substances is more about their anti-inflammatory effects. I know it's all connected and part of the same cascade, but it seems the symptoms would be specific to the particular condition (hyper-coagulation or inflammation).

    I can take 600mg BID of Ibuprofen and have a significant decrease in symptoms, including PEM. This says my symptoms are predominantly due to inflammation, and primarily the brain since it will clear up my vision, brain fog, and tinnitis. Why don't I just stay on Ibuprofen? Because when I stop it, I rebound with worse symptoms than before. I'm still not sure what that's about (and would appreciate feedback on it) but it does tell me it's not the best choice. Seems just as dangerous as Prednisone, which I did for a while. Great stuff, but I'll never, EVER, do that again.

    My CBC, PT, PTT are always normal, but this hypercoagualtion is worthy of attention. For myself, I think there is an autoimmune process happening, and I do feel that it's only one aspect of the disease. Immune suppression, over activation, and autoimmunity all in one.
    Oh my.

    I've had tinnitis 24/7 for at least 10 years. It's one of the first symptoms to increase when I'm going into a flare. Doubt taking ASA (aspirin) would matter much in that respect.
  11. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

    Southern USA
    Yes, aspirin is hard on most people, can cause tinittis. I never take it.

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