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Are there any natural antidiuretic supplements?

tango

Senior Member
Messages
165
Location
New Zealand
i use licorice extract which has a minor effect but I am looking for other options to stop frequent urination at night and to help with blood volume

I tried yohimbe but it was overstimulating. Any other suggestions?
 

Moof

Senior Member
Messages
778
Location
UK
Treatment approach can depend on what's causing it. In my case, it was the result of the same involuntary muscle tension that causes some of my ME pain after activity; gabapentin, which relaxes muscles, treated it quite successfully.
 

Carl

Senior Member
Messages
362
Location
United Kingdom
Tu Si Zi (Cuscuta Sinensis, Dodder seed). I have been using this for >20 years and it helps for a number of issues very common in CFS type illnesses. It is used in China to treat frequent urination, impotence, tonifies the Liver and Kidneys, it has antioxidant properties and some forms such as ethanol extracts but not water extracts ie boiling raises, the bodies endogenous antioxidants. It also treats the HPA axis, helping and supporting kidney function and in my experience it lowers cortisol by it's support of the kidney. Tu Si Zi has been shown in animal tests to increase the weight (and functional ability?) of the Pituitary gland. I would say that a large amount of CFS sufferers do have partial destruction of the right side of the pituitary gland along with the hypothalamus. If you search for empty sella there are a number of threads reporting this in CFS. The hypothalamus was once known as the source of the bodies lifeforce.

I use the seeds and I have tried the powder extract which did not work very well for the things that I use the seed. The biggest side effect is a tendency to exacerbate
constipation but for all it's positive effects this is worth working around IMO.

Some known side effects from Tu Si Zi include these:

Increase sperm production
Increase sex drive
Enhance the effects of artificial insemination
Increase sexual stamina
Reduce the size of tumors. In traditional Indian medicine, cuscuta has been used to treat tumors for centuries. This effect has been documented in some laboratory studies.
Increased testosterone production that can interfere with the development of children and fetuses in the womb.
Increase sperm flow.
Decrease the amount of liquid leaving the body.
Reduces inflammation
May reduce the chances of developing health problems associated with inflammation such as heart disease.
http://beforeitsnews.com/health/201...health-benefits-and-side-effects-2446066.html
 
Last edited:

tango

Senior Member
Messages
165
Location
New Zealand
Treatment approach can depend on what's causing it. In my case, it was the result of the same involuntary muscle tension that causes some of my ME pain after activity; gabapentin, which relaxes muscles, treated it quite successfully.

Thanks, the cause of mine is a combination of low aldosterone (but florinef made me feel "off") and progesterone/estrogen imbalance. However, you can't take estrogen unopposed and when I take progesterone to be in optimal ranges I pee all night.

I would stick with being estrogen dominant but it makes me tearful and causes other problems. I can't seem to find the right balance. The dr added in testosterone and DHEA which are both meant to help with peeing but I see no improvement

The dr said that progesterone is a diuretic so it is normal for it to make me pee but coupled with low aldosterone it's a problem
 

tango

Senior Member
Messages
165
Location
New Zealand
Assuming you are getting plenty of salt at night? And some carbs (if you tolerate them) to increase night time glycogen stores? Salt and carbs always worked reasonably well for me, ex.salted OJ. YMMV
Yes, thanks I have lots of salt. I have been experimenting with overnight fasting for autophagy. I may go back to the toast at night today and see if it helps. I know there was that potatoes not prozac book that said a potato at night provides carbs to help sleep. Good suggestion!
 

tango

Senior Member
Messages
165
Location
New Zealand
Tu Si Zi (Cuscuta Sinensis, Dodder seed). I have been using this for >20 years and it helps for a number of issues very common in CFS type illnesses. It is used in China to treat frequent urination, impotence, tonifies the Liver and Kidneys, it has antioxidant properties and some forms such as ethanol extracts but not water extracts ie boiling raises, the bodies endogenous antioxidants. It also treats the HPA axis, helping and supporting kidney function and in my experience it lowers cortisol by it's support of the kidney. Tu Si Zi has been shown in animal tests to increase the weight (and functional ability?) of the Pituitary gland. I would say that a large amount of CFS sufferers do have partial destruction of the right side of the pituitary gland along with the hypothalamus. If you search for empty sella there are a number of threads reporting this in CFS. The hypothalamus was once known as the source of the bodies lifeforce.

I use the seeds and I have tried the powder extract which did not work very well for the things that I use the seed. The biggest side effect is a tendency to exacerbate
constipation but for all it's positive effects this is worth working around IMO.


http://beforeitsnews.com/health/201...health-benefits-and-side-effects-2446066.html

Wow, that's interesting. I have never heard of this herb. I guess the effects are different on men and women but it's worth a try. I do tend to lower cortisol and aldosterone but if it helps tonify and treat frequent urination (in women???) it would be a huge help. It seems to be a vasoconstrictor which would help my low blood pressure

Most of the dodder seed on iherb seem to be combinations include things that lower blood pressure (mine is already low) but these look like promising combinations. I may have to try each of them for a couple of weeks and see if they help

https://www.iherb.com/r/Dragon-Herbs-Microcosmic-Orbit-500-mg-100-Capsules/21605

https://www.iherb.com/pr/Paradise-H...re-Libido-Formula-60-Vegetarian-Capsules/4243

https://www.iherb.com/pr/Planetary-Herbals-Schisandra-Adrenal-Complex-710-mg-120-Tablets/1605

Unfortunately, it doesn't state how much Cuscuta chinensis is in the formulation.
 

Carl

Senior Member
Messages
362
Location
United Kingdom
I would not purchase capsules, as I mentioned I have tried the 5:1 powder extract from a Chinese medicine supplier and I did not find it very effective. A capsule of the 5:1 powder would most likely contain considerably more of active constituents than anything with multiple herbs.

The liver and Kidney toning effect is a result of the essential oil in the seed which can be seen in a good light floating on the top of the liquid of the decocted seeds. I also add Gou Qi Zi (Wolfberry/Goji Berry) to them.

Therefore if I was you I would try and get a small quantity of the seeds so that you can boil them in a pan. Dosage is up to 15g/day, split into 2 cups/day which then lasts me for 24 hours. However it would be worth starting low to see how you get on with it before going to the max.

Cuscuta chinensis Lam.: A systematic review on ethnopharmacology, phytochemistry and pharmacology of an important traditional herbal medicine. Sineeporn Donnapee et al 2014
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.jep.2014.09.032
http://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.jep.2014.09.032
This shows that the water extract has different effects to methanol(X) or ethanol. The bodies antioxidants were only benefited with the alcohol extracts and not with the water extract.
 

tango

Senior Member
Messages
165
Location
New Zealand
I would not purchase capsules, as I mentioned I have tried the 5:1 powder extract from a Chinese medicine supplier and I did not find it very effective. A capsule of the 5:1 powder would most likely contain considerably more of active constituents than anything with multiple herbs.

The liver and Kidney toning effect is a result of the essential oil in the seed which can be seen in a good light floating on the top of the liquid of the decocted seeds. I also add Gou Qi Zi (Wolfberry/Goji Berry) to them.

Therefore if I was you I would try and get a small quantity of the seeds so that you can boil them in a pan. Dosage is up to 15g/day, split into 2 cups/day which then lasts me for 24 hours. However it would be worth starting low to see how you get on with it before going to the max.


http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.jep.2014.09.032
http://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.jep.2014.09.032
This shows that the water extract has different effects to methanol(X) or ethanol. The bodies antioxidants were only benefited with the alcohol extracts and not with the water extract.

Thanks, I will see if I can source the berries. I am not sure if we have them here but I will see what is available.

I love goji berries for energy. I don't know if they help with frequent urination???

Thanks for the extract. It makes sense that they need alcohol extract for the active ingredients to be extracted. Do you add alcohol or do you simply boil them in water? :)
 

Carl

Senior Member
Messages
362
Location
United Kingdom
Thanks, I will see if I can source the berries. I am not sure if we have them here but I will see what is available.

I love goji berries for energy. I don't know if they help with frequent urination???

Thanks for the extract. It makes sense that they need alcohol extract for the active ingredients to be extracted. Do you add alcohol or do you simply boil them in water? :)
Sorry that I missed your post and did not reply.

I do not use alcohol, I just boil them in a large pan making about 3.5 days per pan along with Gou Qi Zi (Goji barry)

Did you try it, if so how did you get on?
 

tango

Senior Member
Messages
165
Location
New Zealand
Sorry that I missed your post and did not reply.

I do not use alcohol, I just boil them in a large pan making about 3.5 days per pan along with Gou Qi Zi (Goji barry)

Did you try it, if so how did you get on?
Thanks! I haven't sourced any berries locally here in New Zealand so I am trying combinations of herbs which aren't very strong but I am getting some minor benefits :)
 

Carl

Senior Member
Messages
362
Location
United Kingdom
@tango
Did you manage to get any Tu Si Zi?

pinyin Gou Qi Zi (wolfberry/Goji berry are some other common names), some on this forum have said that they like these berries. In my experience, paying attention to my taste and smell is a very good indicator whether something is going to be right for me, therefore I tend to pay attention to that as a guide.

They are quite high in antioxidants and are claimed to increase life span. Do you have any Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioners in New Zealand? If there are, they would probably sell you a small quantity so that you can try them. I do not know which eBay serves NZ but there might be some available there. I would recommend only getting a small quantity at first until you know that they fit well with you.

I am not sure what your customs would do if importing them.

I get mine from
https://www.realfoodsource.com
They offer the best price that I have seen and good quality. They ship to Europe but it does not say whether they would ship to other parts of the world. I have purchased from other sellers but they can be sticky which is not pleasant. They are dehydrated but they do absorb moisture if not kept sealed. I have left some out and they got more and more moist the longer they are left out.
 

Lisa108

Senior Member
Messages
675
I would stick with being estrogen dominant but it makes me tearful and causes other problems. I can't seem to find the right balance.
Did you try Agnus castus (aka monk's pepper, aka chaste tree)?
That was what my Gyn recommended. Can't tell from personal experience though.(Unfortunately all tablets/capsules contained lactose and the drops contained alcohol which I couldn't tolerate, so I had to stop using it before any results.)

Other herbs used for estrogen dominance are yarrow (achillea millefolium), lady's mantle (alchemilla vulgaris) and wild yams (dioscorea villosa).

I also read recently that medicinal mushrooms (like Cordyceps, Shiitake, Reishi...) are able to help. Some are said to restore energy, or sleep, or help with PMS, or can even regulate hormones. But I don't know enough about this topic yet.

Hope you'll find something that works!
 

tango

Senior Member
Messages
165
Location
New Zealand
Did you try Agnus castus (aka monk's pepper, aka chaste tree)?
That was what my Gyn recommended. Can't tell from personal experience though.(Unfortunately all tablets/capsules contained lactose and the drops contained alcohol which I couldn't tolerate, so I had to stop using it before any results.)

Other herbs used for estrogen dominance are yarrow (achillea millefolium), lady's mantle (alchemilla vulgaris) and wild yams (dioscorea villosa).

I also read recently that medicinal mushrooms (like Cordyceps, Shiitake, Reishi...) are able to help. Some are said to restore energy, or sleep, or help with PMS, or can even regulate hormones. But I don't know enough about this topic yet.

Hope you'll find something that works!
Thanks, I have some of the medicinal mushrooms but have been too scared to try them, I must pull them out of the box and have a go.

I haven't tried Chaste Tree either, I might start with the goji berries mentioned above and then move on to the mushrooms! One thing at a time - just in case
 

tango

Senior Member
Messages
165
Location
New Zealand
@tango
Did you manage to get any Tu Si Zi?

pinyin Gou Qi Zi (wolfberry/Goji berry are some other common names), some on this forum have said that they like these berries. In my experience, paying attention to my taste and smell is a very good indicator whether something is going to be right for me, therefore I tend to pay attention to that as a guide.

They are quite high in antioxidants and are claimed to increase life span. Do you have any Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioners in New Zealand? If there are, they would probably sell you a small quantity so that you can try them. I do not know which eBay serves NZ but there might be some available there. I would recommend only getting a small quantity at first until you know that they fit well with you.

I am not sure what your customs would do if importing them.

I get mine from
https://www.realfoodsource.com
They offer the best price that I have seen and good quality. They ship to Europe but it does not say whether they would ship to other parts of the world. I have purchased from other sellers but they can be sticky which is not pleasant. They are dehydrated but they do absorb moisture if not kept sealed. I have left some out and they got more and more moist the longer they are left out.

I bought some dried goji berries without preservaitves today. Delicious! I am going to enjoy trying them. Thanks for the suggestion!

I had no luck sourcing Tu Si Zi and New Zealand customs tend to be vigilant but it depends on the Customs declaration form. Sometimes you get lucky...