Anyone tried Limbic Retraining: Dynamic Neural Retraining System?

[Dufresne]

I've made a few augmentations that seem to be improving the technique. It sounds ridiculous but I'm trying not to be so happy. I suspect my excitable, overly sensitive nature could be feeding a bad loop that's keeping me ill. What I'm focusing on is the cultivation of an inner boredom. As difficult as it sometimes is I'm trying not to allow myself to become excited about anything, good or bad. As I do this I'm feeling more levelheaded, which makes me feel better, but I try not to enjoy it. Perverse isn't it? But it feels as if I'm collecting more and more energy and sublimating it into healing power.

Update:
My continued conscious effort to calm my system eventually landed me with depression. It took several days to manifest, and then a few more painful ones to recognize it. So just like with meditation/mindfulness, cultivation of my"inner boredom" led to an increase in oxidative stress. I think this is because these strategies actually increase oxygenation, and for some of us this only places further stress on the system (think Cheney's theory of oxygen toxicity).

Aspects of Gupta's program I believe to be helpful are the diet, the alternate nostril breathing and, surprisingly, the "stop, stop, stop" of negative thoughts. The diet is one that minimizes acidity/oxidation (no red meat, little sugar, and no caffeine). This is something I came to on my own about six months before trying Gupta, and it made a big difference. The breathing exercise is a way of balancing the ANS. For whatever reason a few minutes of this and the calming it produces doesn't cause me any unwanted oxygenation/stimulation.

I've grown increasingly optimistic about my chances of recovery over the last 2-3 years; as such I wouldn't have thought I waste much energy on negative thoughts. However I decided to give the "stop, stop, stop" part of Gupta's program a go. I also started using it on both negative thoughts and what he calls bodyscanning. The body scanning is something I'm certainly guilty of. Through my years of illness and intense desire to be well I've developed a somewhat over-focused sense of what my body is doing. Although an asset when you're trying to figure out how treatments are affecting you, it's not so good if you're constantly noting "well, there go my frickin calves twitching again." So I've tried to shift my thoughts away from this.

To sum up, I notice a healthy relaxation with the alternate nostril breathing, fewer negative thoughts about symptoms, and a blunting of my excitable response to mold exposure. I think the latter is simply the result of a somewhat toned down ANS.

 

[ahmo]

Thanks very much for updating your experience.

The diet is one that minimizes acidity/oxidation (no red meat, little sugar, and no caffeine)

And, OTOH, I've recently realized that I was pushing oxidative stress when I decreased my meat and animal fat intake. Once I resumed eating 100g meat daily, and put animal fat back in, I've been vastly more comfortable.

 

[Dufresne]

And, OTOH, I've recently realized that I was pushing oxidative stress when I decreased my meat and animal fat intake. Once I resumed eating 100g meat daily, and put animal fat back in, I've been vastly more comfortable.

I find a lower protein intake reduces acidity/oxidation, but this will be offset if I make up the calories in sugar/carbs. I've found the best possible diet to be one free of red meat and low in carbs. For me sugar is better than complex carbs but still somewhat acidifying. I expect this varies from person to person. Complex carbs could be causing more inflammation due to their effect on gut flora, or maybe it's what Shoemaker suggests. Also I still keep my protein intake fairly high. The difference between 80g and 160g is minimal.

 

[student]

Gupta was of help. The day my Vitamin B2 arrived - I was so much better with the gupta. I had a work opportunity just 5 weeks after starting the Gupta. It was 7 hours dayli for 6 weeks. (My support was methylation, Ornithin and Citicholine.)

I wounder - in the planet thrive forum people valued the DRNS higher. So after @charlie1 (post #16, page one) I am ever so interested. My DRNS (Hoper) is at german customs. I look forward starting it soon. So what I know: I am perceptive to gupta and others. Next week I want to learn from the DRNS dvd cours.

regards Student, Hamburg- Germany
I am moldy CFS, (no MCs), the RS starch was great help, Myrrhe nasal (Klinghard) was revelation ...

 

[Old Bones]

I decided to give the "stop, stop, stop" part of Gupta's program a go. I also started using it on both negative thoughts and what he calls bodyscanning. The body scanning is something I'm certainly guilty of. Through my years of illness and intense desire to be well I've developed a somewhat over-focused sense of what my body is doing. Although an asset when you're trying to figure out how treatments are affecting you, it's not so good if you're constantly noting "well, there go my frickin calves twitching again." So I've tried to shift my thoughts away from this.

I could really relate to this segment of your post. I've long been aware of the supposed benefits of Mindfulness Meditation for those with chronic illnesses. So, although I don't consider myself a natural meditator (I've tried, and disliked it in the past), I signed up for a free course earlier this year. No matter how many times the instructor tried to convince me, I just couldn't see why a person who is always in pain, with multiple layers of discomfort, would intentionally focus on how poorly they feel. And, the body scan exercises (focussing attention on one body part at a time) just made me intensely itchy. Like you, I've learned it is best to let the discomfort sit in the background. This is usually doable for all but the most intense sensations. So, perhaps the breathing exercises you mentioned would be something for me to try to balance my "wacky" ANS. Thanks for this suggestion.

 

[Dufresne]

I am moldy CFS, (no MCs), the RS starch was great help, Myrrhe nasal (Klinghard) was revelation ...

Is there really something to the Myrrhe? I know Klinghardt says it raises MSH and will help CIRS, but I've injected MSH and gotten nothing out of it but a bit of colour. I've been thinking that Shoemaker could be wrong about MSH being the primary anti-inflammatory in CIRS. What's your experience with it?

 

[student]

I was eager in every step. And physically I am much-much better of. This is for shure! Now my main strong point – was probably my hole day blocking of nose paralell to attempts. 3 weeks with addition of Propulis-vaseline fat. That is used directly after the eager myrrhe therapie (Myrrhe only on relatively clean days/ not fighting the mould). So the 9 weeks my respiratory system was verry well protected. Now everso often just with 3x 3 cm paper tissue(each nostril gets one - block). All that is in this realtively mouldy house. I only had the "suicidal"- choice of staying- because so many friends prayed. And my mother, 90 y - needs me here. So I did not move out. I tried to fight hard - and plan the effective mould reduction. (Please do not stop any of that- when doing DNRS.) So I was actually 2 days out of 5 renovating and fight sources of mould (with double mask protection, close eagerly changing – and washing 3x after contact. - I do feel my scin MCAD reactions to miniscule presence of mould on my left hand, that was often without a second glowe. (And yes I have started in detox... We have contact. You know some of my details... from other threads.) - So NOW- forget the very practical stuff. This is the DNRS curve. Though it does help to effectively bring the mold down.

I am looking forward to calm my ME overreaction- HYPER circles down. That could be my main fokus.
This DNRS does sound so simple. Yet there are not much more than personal note taking processes - to be described (in the DVD 2.3 steps). Yes this DNRS, seems increadably easy to say. I want change, I go within, I speak diffrent - no concnetration on symptoms - and so on. I am starting with DVDs and will grow in experiece. - I am Newbe- in this. Can somebody (like @charlie1) explain were this training goes. What are the DNRS steps...

 

[student]

I am better with many effords. Daily my nose – is pluged for 3 mounth. (Paper tissue – with propulis into both nostril had helped me a lot). No Myrrhe now, I pause. For 3 mounth I had paused my gupta. / Second day – I just started now with Hoopers (DNRS – like version 2.0 of the gupta). Again – I do this with great and eager expectations..(All other – eating habits are much better, like RS-Starch &fibers / little probiotics, some of them got left out already; B2 I continued regularly, Folat support regularly / sometimes I have left B12 out.) My mould fight is activ – but slows down thoug. Less eager activity and strife goes into this one. Some are still praying that mold fight is effective for this house. The roof exchanged has to be planed for next spring.

My hope was raised that this DNRS rewiring- is verry diffrent. I had not found good discriptions before purchase (I had more eager expectations for this...). My comparrison with Gupta – see here http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...al-retraining-system.32895/page-2#post-673879 So I use Hooper words – with guptas Stop-stop ...Map-on-the-floor. (booth aim at exactly the same NLP process. And more simplified 1- 6 Numbers can be used, with the V- shape as @original Gu.) And now I am to do my training for repetition of this full lengthy Gupta „2.0“ - prevention setting. – like @charlie1 quotes this will be my continualy – pretty hard work. This is wanted for at least 3- 6 mounth from now... SEE..

(Let me think – back) I had stopped my original Gupta 1.0. Especially with starting to work in Juli 2015 this year, this morning rotine had so often – become hardly fathable. So after 2 weeks working- I slowly left out – a part of the long NLP process. So the psycho „rewiring“ process changed and became stuck. I had 6 weeks in work with than trying to use more supplements. Citicholine (2- 3x ) plus Ornithin (3- 5x during work) day helped.

On the other positive experience side with work and the Gupta program: I was able to get done with all that stress of my lengthy 7 hours (2h pause) "specialists" working day. Plus twice mouving my room during the first few days. All bags with my belongings were caried by myself into the car and to the other house (so to a good amount of pay for every night). Just after 6 weeks- this work was over. / I was back into mouldy house to start than with more effective cleansing. Verry slowly this house becomes little more clean through this verry eager approach. / Though one water leak will be profecionaly cared for just beginning next week. And an exchange of all roof is planed for spring 2016.

 

[student]

It would be great to become emotional more calm. My eager hyper addrenalin cicles are very bad for contact. This I hope to influence with more DNRS (gupta like) stop trainings.

update: I keep my nose stuck with 2 small stripes of tissue. (some mould fight is still needed here and) not every place is safe in the house. I ware mask with every danger of mould and intensive after-cleaning. Isopropanol (beter than Ethanol), special anti-mould wall-color (20 $ per lieter) F10, Fritz Raum http://www.raumfritz.de/. It was said they colaborate with the (scientifique) Frauenhofer Institut DE. This is the bases for me – feeling much more safe to stay in this house.

I trie to be warm. I do often ware 3 (or 4) shirt, warm-west, in adition to a pullover. This is to safe plenty of energie. I am getting familiar to the lengthy (verry gupta like) DNRS sequence. The DVD people seem to be eager. It is said to do stop-training often (more than 50 times). Repetition could create more ease – later on.

I have learned my routine – with new Hooper (dnrs) words and try to say many of it in my german language. I do find much more clarity – with the V shape red &green line. So I order the points where I have them with the original Gupta (1 and 9 – are left out somehow).

Folat and B2 I do still take regular. (B12 and Multi much less). D3 irregular (1000 every 3 days). RS starch and some fibers good quantity every day. And some rules for my eating.

 

[student]

Multi-lateral – go for your Gupta, DNRS, EMDR and others..

Yes, I chalange you! Take out your Gupta XXL floor-map. It is the core of more reacent Hoppers Program. This Stopp -Exercise is crutial. (A vague process-description can also be found here http://www.arationalapproach.com/ chapter 4 @low cost.) But nothing has more expertise in-it than the Gupta-stop- plan. Mrs Hopper than– wanted 100 repetitions (in the very early days) of her Stop-plan. When you have done all this.. Let us: Than please – not forget all these other supportiv Therapies that you already know of.

My example: I had started the third week of my gupta training. (Plus I was on Methylation 6 mounth.) It was than that a new Vitamin supply arrived in the post. Than for me - the B 2 supplement together with gupta exercise – akted like a magic bullet. I started this with 3- 4x 10 mg a day. I had not tried B 2 other than with my multis.

My new DNRs (Hopper) training now brings in this Doige N, book: Brains way of healing. So lets open our minds for much more of the sentimental flow within. – That can greatly help. It is likely to funciton as a Brain-„Reset“. Why dont we all learn to use this Button. Lets combind the more than two strategies plan. – That maybe help to your brain most of all now. Enjoy Chrismas.

Student

 

[cb2]

I just heard of that DNR program yesterday and then I found this thread on the gupta training yesterday. now I'm wondering how do I choose which program to try ? and if anyone has any ideas on how to get a used version of the DVDs for lesser cost.

I am in California and I noticed there's gonna be a DNR seminar in Ojai in September .

I am considering giving it a shot since the cost is not more then a lyme mold literate M.D. overall.
And I have been away from my apartment or any type of vacation for over 15 years it would almost be like a little vacation . Going to the place where they provide food that would be nice

 

[cb2]

@student how are you doing with the training. ? Which did you prefer?
Thank you

 

[maddietod]

I didn't like the DNRS program. She gets to a point where you have to remember a happy time in vivid detail as part of the reprogramming. You need to come up with several of these events and experience them in excruciating detail, and use them every day. I turned her off part way through her description of a birthday party and couldn't make myself watch any more. I felt embarrassed for her and a little nauseated.

 

[cb2]

thank you @maddietod for your feedback
was she telling of an event in her life? it sounds like it was not a good event.

have you tired the gupta method?

 

[cb2]

did you return them and were able to get your money back?

 

[maddietod]

You have to find multiple very happy events; the one she described was a birthday party. Apparently she's very visual, and I'm not. I got bored with her description and couldn't relate to her emotionalism as she named all of her friends who were there.

You can't return the set until 6 months have passed. I'm not there yet.

 

[cb2]

I am tossing betwn Annie Hoppers and Guptas DVDs. I can be visual but have a hard time focusing on one thing for very long. I took a little workshop last weekend from a women that took both classes and it seems we can create our own "positive" stories. I think i understand what you are saying about her birthday party- that senerio wouldn't work well for me

 

[Little Bluestem]

You need to come up with several of these events and experience them in excruciating detail, and use them every day.

Do you need to use all of them every day? With breathing exercises and diet changes, this sounds like it could become a very time-consuming program.

 

[maddietod]

Do you need to use all of them every day? With breathing exercises and diet changes, this sounds like it could become a very time-consuming program.

Yes. The whole idea of retraining is to constantly provoke a new stimulus-response pattern. And Annie's process is lengthy.

 

[Critterina]

Hi everyone,
I went to the church by my house today, instead of the one I belong to. There I ran into a woman who used to go to the church I belong to. I hardly recognized her. She didn't have her cane or her service dog (who used to sing along with the hymns!). I'm much better, too, than when we last met, and we swapped recovery stories. Hers was largely this limbic system retraining, so this afternoon I'm looking into it.

Thanks for all your comments. It does sound time consuming, but I remember when I couldn't do much more than read, so it's not like anything else was taking my time. Now I've taken the month of October off, so I could start this if I want...but how much do you have to withdraw from life to do the program? I've been hoping to start some major remodeling this month that will take stamina and negotiating skills.

I do not have CFS or PEM, and I have never had much of a fight or flight response. I've always been the one who could function in an emergency. Maybe break down (tears) after, but keep a level head until everyone was as safe and taken care of as possible (or whatever the stress was that needed to be dealt with.) I pause, maybe freeze most of the time. My adrenaline will rise with erratic motorists, but then, so will my anger at the driver acting in a way that threatens my well-being.

Thinking of fear...During the worst of my illness I had multiple chemical sensitivities so bad that it felt like some wearing perfume or even scented lip balm near my office was throwing invisible darts at me. Same sense of being attacked when there were cats in the house (I'm allergic). And with the histamine intolerance, the whole thing about safe foods and unsafe foods, I have had a lot of self-talk about "that food's not safe for me". And it may be a lack of faith, but I have a hard time with the concept of a "benevolent universe". God yes; nature, which I love for itself and it's marvels, not so trustworthy.

I accept neuroplasticity as a fact. I read Doidge's book many years ago, and I bought the Posit Science materials for my mother who did them at about age 88 and kept the noticeable gains she made until she died recently at 94.
I think there is a good chance that this program would help me.
I totally respect you people in this forum, so I'm asking for your inputs, stray thoughts, etc. Thanks!