Anybody else using DIY transdermal B12?

[Little Bluestem]

The liquid does not stain my skin. I need to use enough alcohol and lotion so that it does not 'sweat' back to the surface and stain my clothes.

I switched from tablets because they were damaging my teeth.

 

[Johnmac]

I tend to think transdermal is the way of the future, given the hassle & dental problems with holding tabs in your mouth for an hour.

I've used a mix of methylfolate, methyl B12, B2 & B1 - crushed & mixed with oil, then applied to my skin for a few hours under a bandage. (The B2 & B1 were on the recommendation of Greg the Australian B12 oils guy, who says that B2 helps B12 a lot, & B1 helps B2.)

When I first tried it I was able to reduce my daily folate dose by 1/3 - tho to be entirely fair that may have been because I didn't need the amount of sublingual folate I was taking in the first place.

I was euphoric for about a week when I switched to TD: I assume this was more B12 > serotonin. Interesting, as the dose hadn't changed. I surmise that because the Country Life 5mg mB12 tab I was taking dissolved in my mouth so quick, I wasn't getting most of the 5mg; and that grinding it up & putting it against my skin made it last much longer, giving me a much slower and therefore larger penetrative dose.

I've since switched to the Australian oils for B12, but no changes yet.

My situation is complicated by the recent realisation that I don't know whether my big changes on the Freddd Protocol have been from folate, B12 or both. I can't really tell: I guess the way to do that is reduce doses of one but not the other & see what happens...

If not, why not?

OK, the reason I ask is that it seems to be the cheapest, easiest, and safest way to get high doses into the bloodstream, but the fact that I don't hear more of you all doing it is making me wonder just how effective it is.

So far, Ahmo seems to be the only person here who is committed to DIY transdermal B12.

I've been using Ahmo's technique (with a couple of tweaks to it), but I still haven't gotten noticeable responses to the B12. However, I'm not sure if I have ever gotten much of a response to the b12, except when I first started on it, so I feel I am not a good guinea pig for this. I plan on upping my dosage in the next week, and maybe this will give me more info.

Just fyi, this is the my version the transdermal b12: 1/2 squirt of Bluebonnet 5000 mcg b12 mixed with 1/2 teaspoon Everclear, 190 proof (ethanol helps the b12 to pass through, supposedly--hat tip to @Hip for this info). I smooth that on the skin, then before it is dry I dip my fingers into some sunflower oil (expeller pressed, organic) and rub that on top until the whole thing pretty much disappears. Then, I'm careful to rinse off my hands, because I don't want whatever b12 is left on the skin on my hands to be exposed to light. I do this twice a day (so, 5000 mcg total).

I know that at least some of the b12 is getting through, because the first couple of weeks I wasn't so careful about not exposing the b12 to light and I ended up with some nasty lesions on my face from the degraded b12.

 

[drew]

@Johnmac

Why couldn't you just take a b complex pill and the b12 transdermally?

 

[maryb]

@Johnmac
Which brand of the Bs did you use TD. I would like to try this way. I have a transdermal multi vit/mineral body spray from my doctor but my skin just sweats it back out and all my clothes get covered in pink stuff.
@drew - for me any oral b complex makes me feel like I've been poisoned, not sure how it affects others.

 

[John Mac]

@John Mac
Which brand of the Bs did you use TD. I would like to try this way. I have a transdermal multi vit/mineral body spray from my doctor but my skin just sweats it back out and all my clothes get covered in pink stuff.
@drew - for me any oral b complex makes me feel like I've been poisoned, not sure how it affects others.

Different John Mac @maryb
The one you want is @Johnmac

 

[drew]

What is the difference of potency between methods. How much less would one have to use of the transdermal compared to sublingual?

 

[Johnmac]

@Johnmac

Why couldn't you just take a b complex pill and the b12 transdermally?

Sorry, don't understand the question. Maybe re-read my post.

 

[drew]

@Johnmac

You wrote: "I've used a mix of methylfolate, methyl B12, B2 & B1 - crushed & mixed with oil, then applied to my skin for a few hours under a bandage. (The B2 & B1 were on the recommendation of Greg the Australian B12 oils guy, who says that B2 helps B12 a lot, & B1 helps B2.)"

Why couldn't you just consume a b complex pill? Why does the B complex have to applied transdermally?

 

[Johnmac]

Okay. Because methyl & adenosyl B12 (the types that are of use) don't have much efficacy taken orally; have a bit more efficacy taken sublingually; & a lot more taken transdermally. The absorption rates have been surmised to be 1%, 15% & 80% respectively - tho I don't know if that's true.

I'm assuming that similar dynamics apply to the other Bs, tho that's a guess. If I find that TD works well for all Bs, I'll just crush up a multi B & do the same (TD).

 

[drew]

I wonder if one could stop taking lithium if they are taking TD B12 since the absorption rate is much more efficient.

 

[maryb]

@Johnmac
You probably missed my question, which brand B1 & 2 do you use?

 

[Johnmac]

Sorry. Because I've been living in Cambodia, I've been buying brands made there. Amazingly enough, they work.

I haven't got round to buying a brand from iHerb yet, so can't tell you what is good or not from there, sorry.

 

[maryb]

Okay thanks.

 

[Johnmac]

I just asked Dr Greg Russell-Jones at B12Oils what the relative penetration rates of different forms of B12. He replied:

* Oral - 0.1-1% per dose.

* Sublingual - the same, but the sublingual keeps prolonging the dose. Probably less than 5% after a full day of sucking. It seems to have much less efficacy than this though.

* Nasal spray - don't know, but data suggests it is more like sub-lingual, and that the uptake mechanism is the same. I would have to check this.

* Injection - by definition 100%, but you lose it very quickly. The half-life is about 30-60 minutes.

* Transdermal - In small animals about 80%, but like injection the half-life is 30-60 minutes. We have a study going on, but it isn't finished yet.

The thing is that to restock the brain you only get a tiny bit across into the brain at any one time, so you need high doses (such as with TD and injectable) around all the time, so that you can maximize this.

The other thing is that if the material is not loaded onto transcobalamin it gets loaded onto haptocorrin, which can look as if you have it working. The majority of people who have been taking high dose oral or sub-linguals have very high serum b12, but they don't show signs of sufficiency. That is because it is not loaded onto transcobalamin. This is also a problem for IM and TD, but the slower release and drainage seems to be better at loading up transcobalamin.

Thus, people who have been on high dose oral for years, rapidly get better (over a month or so) after the TD, so there is a big difference.

 

[gettinbetter]

Is anyone using Greg's B12 oils specifically the hydroxocobalamin?
If so how do you like it ?
Thanks very much

 

[Sundancer]

this is an interesting thread, I'll bookmark it for later.
I'm now on 2 mg methylcobalamine and getting the dose up gives me yet too much nasty symptoms. But later on...I'll look at the transdermal DIY.

I saw a new transdermal sold here in Holland, but did not like the ingredients at all.
first it is cyanocobalamin...Plus they added perfume...

and shipping from Australia is too expensive ( but happy for those that live there, things should balance out a little)

 

[gettinbetter]

Thanks @ahmo, that's really interesting. Such and individual thing, can't say I've really experienced adrenal stress symptoms from more mfolate.

I think I have had adrenal stress with injectable mfolate I had heart pounding and could not sleep it lasted about 24 hours

 

[gettinbetter]

Now I use ethyl alcohol (Everclear, 190 proof) and sunflower oil. I put on the B12 liquid, then put about an equal amount of ethyl alcohol on top and rub it around. Then, before the alcohol evaporates I dip my fingers in some oil and rub that in. I can clearly see the B12 disappearing into the skin when i do this.

Hello Soporificat
How does this work for you? If you use or have used Greg's oil can you compare?
Thanks

 

[Eastman]

@gettinbetter

Soporificat has not logged in for almost two years.

Her last post on this thread suggests that she switched method.

Also, I've tried various combinations of things to get the b12 to sink in, and I'm finding that drugstore moisturizer works best, surprisingly. I use Curel.

 

[Lowb12]

@juniemarie I'm using Bluebonnet 500mcg drops. Somewhere on the other transdermal thread, garyfritz worked out how much cheaper the DIY was compared to B12 oils. About 1/4, as I recall. I started out using a body butter, which is grease only. then switched to a lotion, so water + grease. My sense is that there might be better absorption w/ the lotion, though I'm not certain.

I'm unclear on the exact dosage the B12 oils delivers. I found it mystifying that I seemed to have the same response to 1 squirt B12oil as to using several different amounts of Bluebonnet drops. That is, I have some remaining B12oils, have used it time to time to see the differences, and it seems to be the same.

In favor of the commercial B12oil, they certainly have gotten an efficient mix. A tiny drop, compared to a fingerful of lotion + drops. But the DIY sinks in very quickly, so I'm staying with it. There are a couple people investigating buying bulk B12 crystals, if any of that turns out to be high quality and affordable, that'll be another choice.

@ahmo what is the go to method now for b12?