Any examples in the animal kingdom?

[roller]

Parasites take advantage of the situaion but in my opion are not the cause.

wish you were right.

of course, the hyper parasite/pathogen infection may have a genetic cause.
or an environmental (other than that they are just everywhere).

but you will never ever change anything (or improve to the better), without removing the parasites.
at least the big junk of it.

then you can attempt to try (...) to get your immune system/body back.
and keep pathogens under control.. within bearable/tolerable numbers.

for my experience.

some of the helminths might be the best natural immuno modulators in the world... to their liking...

 

[lansbergen]

some of the helminths might be the best natural immuno modulators in the world... to their liking...

I will not try that.

 

[roller]

some say tapeworm does help for multiple sklerosis, when i remember right.

i rather meant, that they modulate the immune system in a mostly very negative way (for humans).
they change a massive lot.
and not only immune components - also the whole food axis is involved (ghrelins, peptides etc).

 

[lansbergen]

but you will never ever change anything (or improve to the better), without removing the parasites. at least the big junk of it.

I did treat parasites in the animals. I had to do it more frequently than before the infection I suspect was brought in.

Without helping the immune system fight the mysterious infection it is mopping with the tap open.

 

[roller]

bacteria and worms is one thing.
both have to be treated at the same time.

not sure how the other stuff (virus, fungi, mites, myco..) is involved. it definitely is.

 

[ScottTriGuy]

sloths?

 

[roller]

Sloths make a good habitat for other organisms, and a single sloth may be home to moths, beetles, cockroaches, ciliates, fungi, and algae.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloth

sounds funny, but ... the human race may carry more...

perhaps their immobility contributes to the parasite-load.
otherwise, they seem to have been ground dwellers, initially. no survivors, of that linage obviously.

 

[alex3619]

psychiatry is one of the worst things ever happened to humans.

I put it a little differently. We need psychiatry, just not psychiatry mired in irrationality, unscientific practices, bias, dogma and cultish behaviour.

The worst thing to happen to psychiatry was Freud.

Psychiatry did have a lot to answer for aside from Freudian nonsense, with insane asylums torturing people with indifference to suffering until it started to be exposed. Exposing the lies, the bias, the failures, the intrinsic inhumanity ... you fight such evil with truth. Not just quietly in the shadows truth, but in the full light of day. They need to be exposed, then exposed again, then know that unless they change they will face perpetual challenge. Anyone covering for them needs to be exposed too. However none of this is easy.

Atrocities included very dangerous therapies, therapies that severely damaged the brain and made patients docile (such as lobotomy), removal of organs because they were the problem, and so on. While the blatant atrocities ceased half a century ago, more subtle atrocities are underway.

If farmers did these things to their animals the animal rights movement would be after them, though considered troublemakers by the establishment. We are trying to fight these atrocities, and working for human rights, but not enough people are involved.

I saw PACE as the means to do that, the failures are obvious if you look, which is why I started to write a book on it some years ago. We need to expose the charlatanry that is going on. Medicine needs to wake up and fix its own problems, and especially psychiatry, but if this does not happen they may find their institutions and power eroded and even dismantled. They are, in my view, on a long path to an end of the medical profession as we know it.

As for putting down animals with badly understood illnesses, how many of us are treated, especially in the UK, is in line with that idea. Its broader than just ME though. The last several years saw a jump in the death numbers for disabled of about 100,000. This is in total, as the figure is about 30,000 per year. That is an increase over the normal death rate.

 

[unto]

definitely, especially for pets (dogs and cats) but also horses, rabbits etc. They can contract the ME / CFS, simply because it is an infectious disease.I in 30 years of ME I owned 5 animals, three dogs and two cats; all they are suffering from fatigue / drowsiness, vulnerability to cold, digestive difficulties.The last dog (female) was sterilized at the age of one year; his body was bigger in the rear, while the front was closer, I fed him often leftover food of my family, even before being sterilized had shown symptoms of ME, but after that was sterilized symptoms worsened ,It was suppressed at the age of six years because practically no longer able to feed themselves, was very thin in the back and the chest swelled;We consulted several veterinarians and made many laboratory tests, had developed an abdominal ascites, without arriving at a diagnosis.I conducted an autopsy and found a diffuse peritonitis without identification of the germ and endocarditis; I had suggested to all veterinarians peritonitis after sterilization but I was always told that it was impossible because he had no pain on palpation, had a fever and could not have lived five years with peritonitis, naturally in abdominal ultrasounds and x-ray does not He sees anything

 

[unto]

It is dr. Walter Tarello studied the ME / CFS in animals and treated them with arsenic ... now working in Dubai believe;

http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/arsenic.html

also Dr. W.John Martin, I've seen mentioned in this forum, in its publications on the Stealth viruses, speaking of pets suffering from ME / CFS after their human owners were sick of ME

http://www.ccid.org/svresearch.htm

 

[unto]

Institute zooprofilattico where he had the autopsy of my dog still retains some frozen tissue ....... if a forum user has relationships with research scientists microbiologists maybe you could use to do research ....
thank you

 

[halcyon]

also Dr. W.John Martin, I've seen mentioned in this forum, in its publications on the Stealth viruses, speaking of pets suffering from ME / CFS after their human owners were sick of ME

During the 1955 Dalston outbreak, several of the affected people had pet birds (budgerigars) that also became ill and died. They were never able to figure out why or prove a link with the ill humans so it was considered coincidental.

 

[Skippa]

Some v interesting points, thanks all, much to read!

Some further considerations:

1) we tend to think of zoonoses (sp?) as animal to human. What if our poor beloved animals caught CFS from us humans?

2) dogs, cats, horses and even budgies have something in common... We feed them human food. We give them human drugs. They live in human homes. The influence we have on them is way to much to rule out these potentially causative agents.

3) i was thinking mammals would provide the closest "clues". But if budgies show it in the bird family then it is even wider in scope...

 

[unto]

I would not pull him the wrath of animal rights activists,
but why researchers who do research on animals ....
It would be much more "easy and quick" investigate animal.

 

[Forbin]

[OK, I'm going to hell for this one. ]​

Cattle are tested for fatigue by checking to see if they are able to cross a river.
This is called the ox ford criteria.​

​

 

[acer2000]

Pets are not good examples to prove contagion. They inhabit the same space as you, so in as much as your symptoms could be due to exposure to an environmental problem, it would be hard to separate. Animals that live outside would be better.

 

[Skippa]

@Forbin good one

Meanwhile, further down the pictured river, the psych crowd are seeing if witches float.

 

[ukxmrv]

Pets are not good examples to prove contagion. They inhabit the same space as you, so in as much as your symptoms could be due to exposure to an environmental problem, it would be hard to separate. Animals that live outside would be better.

I have an interest in animal contagion as my ME started as a severe, acute viral type illness after adopting a cat from a woman who had become "too ill" to look after her cat and dog. I don't sadly know what happened to her and to her dog (and his new family). She left the area and I did not even think to connect these events until years after. The cat had a lot of medical problems.

 

[unto]

Pets are not good examples to prove contagion. They inhabit the same space as you, so in as much as your symptoms could be due to exposure to an environmental problem, it would be hard to separate. Animals that live outside would be better.

Acer hello, I think it is the man to transmit ME animal, so you can not do research on all the animals out from the sick man ....
research should be done on the animals owned by men / women patients of ME / CFS.
ME / CFS affects various organs of the body: nerves, brain, spinal cord, heart, kidneys, adrenal glands, pelvic floor. etc. etc., most likely because the virus (?) that generates the disease spreads in those organs, do biopsies of those tissues of human
Human entails serious risks for us sick ...... why I said it would be much easier to do research on animals that have contracted ME / CFS from us ....

 

[unto]

I have an interest in animal contagion as my ME started as a severe, acute viral type illness after adopting a cat from a woman who had become "too ill" to look after her cat and dog. I don't sadly know what happened to her and to her dog (and his new family). She left the area and I did not even think to connect these events until years after. The cat had a lot of medical problems.[/QUOTe
Hello Ukxmrv,
I hope to have you understand
it is theoretically possible that a cat can transmit ME / CFS though the man
it is very unlikely, because we do not eat the leftovers of the cat with its residue of saliva, if we do lick your hand, do not put it in your mouth before washing it ...... so "for now" much more likely the animals contract the ME / cFS by humans.