lookinglass
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Andrew Wakefield links autism to CFS
- Thread starter lookinglass
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lookinglass
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BTW corny intro, skip it.
roller
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i dont know the history and i only mailed briefly with my cousin.
he and his wife are not in any autism research nor is the girl medicated or supplemented with anything.
they dont (want to) blame anyone, it was sort of 'bad luck'.
in the first couple of years they were directed from one university hospital to the next to find out what was 'wrong' with their girl. despite all efforts, no physical cause was found.
at the last tests a doctor in one of the major university hospitals said 'probably a vaccination'.
my cousin was not willing to look into the documentation, whether there was anything written.
he and his wife are not in any autism research nor is the girl medicated or supplemented with anything.
they dont (want to) blame anyone, it was sort of 'bad luck'.
in the first couple of years they were directed from one university hospital to the next to find out what was 'wrong' with their girl. despite all efforts, no physical cause was found.
at the last tests a doctor in one of the major university hospitals said 'probably a vaccination'.
my cousin was not willing to look into the documentation, whether there was anything written.
roller
wiggle jiggle
- Messages
- 775
i havent looked into autism really, but i think their have been quite a few pointing at clostridia (tetani).
i think this is correct.
imo the wiki (and other) pictures on the net are pharma propaganda.
e.g. the tbc, leprosis and tetanus pics are from the stone ages, and exaggerated beyond recognition of the disease.
this was typical for that time. not only totally unhelpful, but highly misleading.
you will look at the pic and of course think 'no, this i dont have'.
autism looks like tetanus.
perhaps its not 'the' mmr vax - though, it might be (any) vaccination.
chlostridium tetani is a normal population and becomes only harmful when it leaves the gut.
if something makes the vessels/gut leak - that may be enough to have autism symptoms.
permanent leaking can occur:
- certain haplotype is attributed to a permeable endothelium
- perhaps the immunosuppressants/metals in the vax damage the endothelium
- helminths make the gut (and maybe even the endothelium over time) permeable
probably there are more reasons.
what if ... helminth eggs are passed with the breast milk, the first vaccination drives down the immune system, helminths get the free pass, the damage is done.
if its tetanus then there is currently no cure.
and this concurs with the effect that symptoms return after the tetanus-abx was stopped.
there is no cure because the vessels are damaged and there is no way to avoid that bacterium.
against the bacterium and the spores there could be something perhaps.
the vax is only a weak protection as its distribution to all tissue seems unreliable.
basically, autism would be caused by a endothelium/vessel/gut damage.
and CT is perhaps just the main culprit in the game.
i think this is correct.
imo the wiki (and other) pictures on the net are pharma propaganda.
e.g. the tbc, leprosis and tetanus pics are from the stone ages, and exaggerated beyond recognition of the disease.
this was typical for that time. not only totally unhelpful, but highly misleading.
you will look at the pic and of course think 'no, this i dont have'.
autism looks like tetanus.
perhaps its not 'the' mmr vax - though, it might be (any) vaccination.
chlostridium tetani is a normal population and becomes only harmful when it leaves the gut.
if something makes the vessels/gut leak - that may be enough to have autism symptoms.
permanent leaking can occur:
- certain haplotype is attributed to a permeable endothelium
- perhaps the immunosuppressants/metals in the vax damage the endothelium
- helminths make the gut (and maybe even the endothelium over time) permeable
probably there are more reasons.
what if ... helminth eggs are passed with the breast milk, the first vaccination drives down the immune system, helminths get the free pass, the damage is done.
if its tetanus then there is currently no cure.
and this concurs with the effect that symptoms return after the tetanus-abx was stopped.
there is no cure because the vessels are damaged and there is no way to avoid that bacterium.
against the bacterium and the spores there could be something perhaps.
the vax is only a weak protection as its distribution to all tissue seems unreliable.
basically, autism would be caused by a endothelium/vessel/gut damage.
and CT is perhaps just the main culprit in the game.
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Violeta
Senior Member
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There is usually someone who says something like that about him at every health forum. It doesn't matter what you say as a reply to their claims, no logic or factual information will break through their ridiculous claims against him.
Even linking to information about his vindication won't change their mind.
http://www.naturalnews.com/048753_Wakefield_study_MMR_vaccine_autism.html
Violeta
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I know of one mineral deficiency that can make one prone to a bad reaction to a vaccination....silica. I do have symptoms of needing this mineral.
http://www.homeoint.org/books/boericmm/s/sil.htm
Also, it is said that silica helps detoxify aluminum from the body, so a deficiency would set one up for aluminum toxicity. Vaccinations can contain aluminum.
http://www.homeoint.org/books/boericmm/s/sil.htm
Also, it is said that silica helps detoxify aluminum from the body, so a deficiency would set one up for aluminum toxicity. Vaccinations can contain aluminum.
picante
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I expect that means that every health forum has a medical industry shill ready to smear him again, just in case you forget. It's propaganda for you and me, and it's a warning to other docs who might be tempted to break ranks.
You can do A LOT of harm as an MD and never have your license taken away. That's reserved for people they want to silence.
This could be regarded as evidence supporting the statement in the industry e mail referred to in the lecture, saying something to the effect that they would seek out and destroy opponents, wherever they live.
Once that information is in the public arena these attacks might be regarded as double edged.
HowToEscape?
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Con artists excel at projecting an image of being anything other than a con artist. It's a requirement of the job. I saw Fakefield speak once, he was highly pleased with himself and loved being the center of attention.
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HowToEscape?
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The statement amounts to "A was acquitted, therefore B must be innocent."
Violeta
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I guess this is the way to defame someone when you can't really invalidate or intelligently dispute what they say. LOL
Research 1st
Severe ME, POTS & MCAS.
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Dr Wakefiled was right, as some Autistics,post MMR do have bowel inflammation as now in France it's been shown they have Lyme and it's co infections and often their mothers have a 'CFS' light condition in older life. More worryingly for us, they also seem to have near identical inflammatory blood profiles.
See here:
http://www.redlabs.com/#!autism/c1anc
What probably happens is MMR activates Latent Lyme, that the kids are born with. So MMR doesn't cause Autism, it activates it. Anyway, Wakefield never said it caused it directly, that was distorted by various liars in the public and in journals to defend their friends in high places.
The Vaccine industry in America have a deal they are except from any liability and any civil cases are held in secret as they're terrified of the truth getting out.
For those who don't know, multi million pound awards have been paid out (in rare publicicsed cases) of children who developed brain damage after MMR vaccine. The 0.1% of disabled kids who need 24hr care, are unimportant to a $40 billion industry.
The plot thickens. I wonder if Dr Wakefield will sue Deer once the link is published of Lyme to Autism, or isn't he suing him already? I think I read it somewhere about an American judge could request the person who smeared Dr Wakefield in the press, travel to America to stand trial? (What Dr Wakefield claims, which was distorted in the press, was later found to be accurate). Hardly surprising if your kid is healthy, it gets MMR and ends up brain damaged!
See here:
http://www.redlabs.com/#!autism/c1anc
What probably happens is MMR activates Latent Lyme, that the kids are born with. So MMR doesn't cause Autism, it activates it. Anyway, Wakefield never said it caused it directly, that was distorted by various liars in the public and in journals to defend their friends in high places.
The Vaccine industry in America have a deal they are except from any liability and any civil cases are held in secret as they're terrified of the truth getting out.
For those who don't know, multi million pound awards have been paid out (in rare publicicsed cases) of children who developed brain damage after MMR vaccine. The 0.1% of disabled kids who need 24hr care, are unimportant to a $40 billion industry.
The plot thickens. I wonder if Dr Wakefield will sue Deer once the link is published of Lyme to Autism, or isn't he suing him already? I think I read it somewhere about an American judge could request the person who smeared Dr Wakefield in the press, travel to America to stand trial? (What Dr Wakefield claims, which was distorted in the press, was later found to be accurate). Hardly surprising if your kid is healthy, it gets MMR and ends up brain damaged!
HowToEscape?
Senior Member
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No, I just don't care to waste limited time and energy on the topic. You are free to adore Mr Wakefield +/or his shenanigans if you so choose.
roller
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when i remember right, there have been two cases of fatal tuberculosis activation after MMS vaccination.
one in korea.
that seems particularly weird as the patient died quickly and the bacteria is a very very slow one (i thought).
perhaps they died of something else, but the tbc was spread everywhere and activated.
one problem of vaccinations is their delivery to tissue.
in a paper about tetanus vaccination they were wondering about the issue, and thought of B12 to improve tissue distribution (...i understood).
tearing down the tight junctinos in order to distribute the vaccine efficiently and equally must be wanted or needed?
...by increasing endothelial permeability - i.e. by opening the tight junctions in the BBB and in the gut.
however, the leaking gut may spread without any barrier its harmful bacteria.
...and would the endothelium be able to fully recover at all, afterwards...?
how does a vaccine (particularly the older ones) work in this regard?
of particular interest could be the tetanus vaccine, due to its need to go into tissue and with this its general distribution problems.
and this one, we probably all got as one of the first shots?
what is/was added to current/older vaccines to increase bioavailablity?
the polio one on sugar cubes goes through the stomach?
..they are wondering about the modulation of tight junctions for better bioavailability...
one in korea.
that seems particularly weird as the patient died quickly and the bacteria is a very very slow one (i thought).
perhaps they died of something else, but the tbc was spread everywhere and activated.
one problem of vaccinations is their delivery to tissue.
in a paper about tetanus vaccination they were wondering about the issue, and thought of B12 to improve tissue distribution (...i understood).
tearing down the tight junctinos in order to distribute the vaccine efficiently and equally must be wanted or needed?
...by increasing endothelial permeability - i.e. by opening the tight junctions in the BBB and in the gut.
however, the leaking gut may spread without any barrier its harmful bacteria.
...and would the endothelium be able to fully recover at all, afterwards...?
how does a vaccine (particularly the older ones) work in this regard?
of particular interest could be the tetanus vaccine, due to its need to go into tissue and with this its general distribution problems.
and this one, we probably all got as one of the first shots?
what is/was added to current/older vaccines to increase bioavailablity?
the polio one on sugar cubes goes through the stomach?
..they are wondering about the modulation of tight junctions for better bioavailability...
lookinglass
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Then why not save your time and energy and ignore the man?
eastcoast12
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- Long Island ny
Ok, I need to get this out there. I'm really kinda shocked and dumbfounded about some of the things I read. First of all I completely understand we all try to look for answers any where we can out of a sort of forced desperation. But in the short time I've been on this site, it seems the majority support real hard data driven science about our disease. If that's the case we as a community can not pick and choose which evidence based, data driven, peer reviewed science to believe in(free country and all, so you can believe what you want). It's irresponsible to us and others in situations similar to ours.
Second, Andrew Wakefield has zero credibility. He has single handedly created an atmosphere in which people believed and still believe his bullshit. People, rather children have died because of him.
Also, Dr Mercola and natural news are the exact equivalent to the psychs we all can't stand. Mercola is an anti science shill and natural news is almost like The Onion or more like Infowars. If we choose to listen or believe these hacks then we have no right to criticize any of the hacks from the pace trial or any other psychs that tell us it's all in our head.
I just wanted to say that this was not meant as an attack on anyone. I think it may have come across kinda crass
Second, Andrew Wakefield has zero credibility. He has single handedly created an atmosphere in which people believed and still believe his bullshit. People, rather children have died because of him.
Also, Dr Mercola and natural news are the exact equivalent to the psychs we all can't stand. Mercola is an anti science shill and natural news is almost like The Onion or more like Infowars. If we choose to listen or believe these hacks then we have no right to criticize any of the hacks from the pace trial or any other psychs that tell us it's all in our head.
I just wanted to say that this was not meant as an attack on anyone. I think it may have come across kinda crass
picante
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Who? I want details.
JAH
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I had a nurse who came to my home. The patient she saw after me was a child who had not been vaccinated for measles, and tragically caught the disease at a very young age. The boy nearly died from a complication of the disease, but has lived until age four, needs round the clock care and will never fully recover. There are many cases of children dying of complications due to measles- preventable by vaccine.
Interestingly, this nurse was from the Philippines and complained to me of the corruption in her country that has prevented adequate health care, including vaccination. She told me that measles was very common, and wished health care was more like the US.
I honestly think that anti vaxx ideas are a first world problem/luxury.
JAH
Anyone wanting to spend time with Wakefield can see him on the Conspira Sea Cruise (I'm not joking)
http://www.divinetravels.com/ConspiraSeaCruise2016.html
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Snow Leopard
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If we want to avoid stigma, I'd say we don't want Andrew Wakefield making any sort of claims about our illness.
Claims of an association between ME or CFS and autism is not based on any evidence whatsoever.
Claims of an association between ME or CFS and autism is not based on any evidence whatsoever.
Wayne
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I haven't kept up with this thread,. but thought I'd interject what I think are a few important points to keep in mind. "Scientists" are highly competitive with each other, and often trash and tear down each other just for sport.
To venture away from vaccinations for a moment, I'll mention that cold fusion was at one time a very contentious topic in the scientific community, with the majority of scientists trashing the man who made claims to it being possible. They literally destroyed his work, his reputation, and eventually broke his spirit to the point of him giving up his work, and I believe now lives in Europe.
In the past year, I read about a Fortune 500 company that claims they are making headway on cold fusion technology, and expect to have some kind of working prototype within the next ten years. They said they have to be careful with the way they write their patents however, because if they mention "cold fusion" in any manner whatsoever, it gets rejected by the patent office out of hand.
Why would that be? Because the patent office apparently believes the "experts" at MIT, who say they've scientifically proven that cold fusion is not possible. This company then made the point that at the time MIT was so vociferously denouncing the prospect of cold fusion, they were receiving very large grant monies from the US government on research that would have been severely jeopardized by acceptance of a rival technology.
In other words, science these days is often not about "science"--but about consensus. And consensus is formed by a wide array of monetary and political factors. Getting back to the topic of vaccinations, I think it's always best to keep in mind that it's now a $65 billion dollar industry, and has political and media connections that are formidable--almost beyond belief.
Best, Wayne
To venture away from vaccinations for a moment, I'll mention that cold fusion was at one time a very contentious topic in the scientific community, with the majority of scientists trashing the man who made claims to it being possible. They literally destroyed his work, his reputation, and eventually broke his spirit to the point of him giving up his work, and I believe now lives in Europe.
In the past year, I read about a Fortune 500 company that claims they are making headway on cold fusion technology, and expect to have some kind of working prototype within the next ten years. They said they have to be careful with the way they write their patents however, because if they mention "cold fusion" in any manner whatsoever, it gets rejected by the patent office out of hand.
Why would that be? Because the patent office apparently believes the "experts" at MIT, who say they've scientifically proven that cold fusion is not possible. This company then made the point that at the time MIT was so vociferously denouncing the prospect of cold fusion, they were receiving very large grant monies from the US government on research that would have been severely jeopardized by acceptance of a rival technology.
In other words, science these days is often not about "science"--but about consensus. And consensus is formed by a wide array of monetary and political factors. Getting back to the topic of vaccinations, I think it's always best to keep in mind that it's now a $65 billion dollar industry, and has political and media connections that are formidable--almost beyond belief.
Best, Wayne
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