Anabolic steriods improve immune function in HIV

[heapsreal]

In the following link, studies showed that a rather low dose anabolic steroid used in HIV to stop muscle wasting that can accompany HIV is quite effective at reversing this muscle wasting. What was also interesting was that there were also improvements in immune function, such as a significant increase in cd8 lymphocytes, there was also slight improvement in cd4 cells and a slight decrease in viral load. It seems that this info is not commonly know due to stigma of steroid use and politics, mm sounds familiar. I also wonder if this type of treatment could improve recovery from activity and reduce PEM, improved recovery is one of the reason athletes use these medication, something to think about??

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...olic steroids improve immune function&f=false

cheers!!!

 

[Enid]

I certainly find that one interesting heapsreal because my bro in the States is currently being treated for some as yet unidentified virus and I know steroids form part of the medication. (Big teaching hospital and he's a Doc).

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I got a message saying the viewing limit has been reached on that link. Do you have any links to further information, studies referenced by the book, dosage used, etc? I assume they used oxandrolone (anavar)?

 

[svetoslav80]

heaps I was thinking about trying anabolic steroids as a treatment for a long time, but I can't find them without perscription, and I'm scared to buy from internet.

 

[heapsreal]

Anavar was mentioned in one of the studies, i think dosages are around 25mg a day. The main article though was refering to nandrolone aka deca durabolin at 100mg a week by injection, this is a small dose but seems to be enough to improve HIV patients. One problem with using these is that it does shut down your own natural production of testosterone so would need to use testosterone at HRT dosages like 100mg a week with deca.

Svet, as for getting it, mm ordering off the internet is asking for trouble. The only thing i can think of is finding an antiaging clinic, but think they just deal with testosterone and growth hormone, deca not so much, but never know your luck. Or maybe a sports orientated doctor might help. Its a controversial subject at best with side effects blown up out of proportion. I think if someone was monitored by a doctor and used sensible doses, not massive bodybuilding stuff, then these meds could be safely used.

I would really like to know if it improved exercise tolerence and recovery/PEM in cfs, plus it can help with blood volume so could potentially help with POTS too.

cheers!!!

 

[helios]

thanks for the link to that heapsreal. I am going to take this to my doctor.
I have had really positive experience with an anabolic. I had been on TRT for a few years but was disappointed with it. It was great in some respects but the negatives were it seemed to increase my anxiousness + stress levels a lot, sleep wasn't as good and while I put on a little weight (muscle) I lost fat (and I already had very low BF). My T readings were never all that high even on TRT. I decided to give an anabolic as opposed to an androgenic steriod a go. I felt great and had an improvement in a number of aspects of my health. Even though I was on a relatively low dose I put on more weight and had higher T readings on my blood test. I also remember my doc was excited because I looked a lot healthier and some of my CFS blood test markers had improved, and I am fairly sure CD4 + CD8 were 2 of them.
Downside was low libido and ED, so taking some Test with it is advisable as you suggested, though I dont think it needs to be as high as 100mg/week.
I am no longer with this doctor who was prepared to swap Test for an anabolic (I told him what I had taken) after I had finished with the anti-viral treatment for a year. I felt really rotten on this and got frustrated with this doctor and thus never got around to trying it again. I am at the point now where I just want to go with what has proven to have helped me in the past, and I dont give a damn if it unconventional or ifs not addressing the cause of the problem. I have had trouble finding anything to support me on making a case for trying to get a script as there seems to be not much history of something like Deca being used to assist CFS/ME/FMS patients.

"I would really like to know if it improved exercise tolerence and recovery/PEM in cfs, plus it can help with blood volume so could potentially help with POTS too."
IMO it definitely improved exercise tolerence, but then I can say the same about TRT too, maybe more so, but I took the anabolic about 4yrs ago and for 10 weeks only. I also suspected the increase in blood volume was an aspect that contributed to its favourable effect on me. It was not just physical wellbeing that improved for but also mental.

 

[heapsreal]

thanks for the link to that heapsreal. I am going to take this to my doctor.
I have had really positive experience with an anabolic. I had been on TRT for a few years but was disappointed with it. It was great in some respects but the negatives were it seemed to increase my anxiousness + stress levels a lot, sleep wasn't as good and while I put on a little weight (muscle) I lost fat (and I already had very low BF). My T readings were never all that high even on TRT. I decided to give an anabolic as opposed to an androgenic steriod a go. I felt great and had an improvement in a number of aspects of my health. Even though I was on a relatively low dose I put on more weight and had higher T readings on my blood test. I also remember my doc was excited because I looked a lot healthier and some of my CFS blood test markers had improved, and I am fairly sure CD4 + CD8 were 2 of them.
Downside was low libido and ED, so taking some Test with it is advisable as you suggested, though I dont think it needs to be as high as 100mg/week.
I am no longer with this doctor who was prepared to swap Test for an anabolic (I told him what I had taken) after I had finished with the anti-viral treatment for a year. I felt really rotten on this and got frustrated with this doctor and thus never got around to trying it again. I am at the point now where I just want to go with what has proven to have helped me in the past, and I dont give a damn if it unconventional or ifs not addressing the cause of the problem. I have had trouble finding anything to support me on making a case for trying to get a script as there seems to be not much history of something like Deca being used to assist CFS/ME/FMS patients.

"I would really like to know if it improved exercise tolerence and recovery/PEM in cfs, plus it can help with blood volume so could potentially help with POTS too."
IMO it definitely improved exercise tolerence, but then I can say the same about TRT too, maybe more so, but I took the anabolic about 4yrs ago and for 10 weeks only. I also suspected the increase in blood volume was an aspect that contributed to its favourable effect on me. It was not just physical wellbeing that improved for but also mental.

Its an interesting topic but like u mention, hard to find anyone knowldgable about this type of treatment. I noticed it when looking into HIV/aids treatments that could benefit us but i think the laws here in australia make it hard. I think alot of HIV people go under ground with this type of treatment.

cheers!!!

 

[Battery Muncher]

Interesting. I always wondered about this, but couldn't try it as had no access to steroids.

For the aussies on here: can't you get DHEA over the counter? I'm not sure how it compares to other steroids, but it could be worth a try.

 

[helios]

In Oz Deca is really only authorised for osteoporosis but its not really a front-line med for this. Not many doctors have experience with it. It has a relatively safe profile, but as soon as you mention anabolic, guess what the reaction will be. I mentioned Deca in my 'medical history notes' with my current doctor but have not mentioned it further as I have been progressing through what he considers are the relevant tests and treatments. I have made progress with my health recently, but not to the level were I consider myself back to normal. As the yrs go by and I still wait for conventional treatments to restore my health, I would consider an alt source in the new year if my doc knocked me back, though thats not easy.

Heapsreal - are you on TRT and has it been a great thing for you? Are you tempted to mention Deca to your doctor.

BM - DHEA is not OTC. I had to get a script for it and got it from a compounding pharmacy. I showed up low in this and still do, and it should be good for me but I never really felt a great boost from it. Maybe I was not on it long enough. I quit taking it because I had a lot of hair loss while taking it. the past month I have started taking it again, but now just approx 10mg and again I have not really noticed a boost to my well-being.

 

[heapsreal]

Not on TRT as such but did have high E2(estrogen) which i use arimidex an antiestrogen drug which helped lower this and increased my free testosterone levels, my total T levels have always been good. I have used pregnenolone and dhea(prohormones) and they have helped with energy but need very small doses compared to whats normally recommended but did have blood pressure issues but this could also be from chronic sinus issues, both i think were aggravating my BP, so at the moment not on any prohormones until i fix my sinus issues up, then i will try it again and monitor my BP. Pregnenolone cream at about 5-10mg(higher doses made me very irritable and angry almost like a roid rage and sleep was almost impossible, was on 50mg a day of preg cream) was probably better for energy then dhea and did increase my testosterone levels where as dhea just increased my E2 levels but this was prior to using an antiestrogen. Arimidex did help me lose some weight from my waist though and i buy it online which is much cheaper then here in australia and my doc prescribes it for me.

I think treating hormones can help but i think its a side issue and a consequences of chronic stress of infections/immune defiencies as well as aging.

cheers!!!