New Atmosphere, New Vision: Gibson and Whittemore Kick Off Invest in ME Conference 2016
Mark Berry reports on Dr. Gibson's introduction and Dr. Whittemore's keynote speech, at the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London.
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ALA concern

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Chiron, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. Chiron

    Chiron

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    I just wanted to double check with the community here about the effects of ALA (alpha lipoic acid). The Andrew Cutler crowd says that if you take this at all without following their protocol and you have heavy metals, the ALA will mess you up.

    Someone ran my detox genetics recently and recommended I take ALA daily. I've been doing 150mg once a day. According to the Cutler people, this is a cardinal sin because you should be taking smaller doses every 4-8 hours (including during sleep cycles).

    I'm just trying to shore up my detoxing pathways because apparently they are abysmal. I have SOD2, GSTP, MTRR, CBS and COMT mutations. I need to support glutathione and SOD production, as well as cleanup any excess methyl groups.

    My plan right now is: grape seed extract, turmeric, ALA, milk thistle, carnitine fumarate, hydroxyB12, quercertin, rutin, and CoQ10.

    I need to introduce these gradually since most of them I've never taken before, and I need to double check them.

    Off topic question... but can anyone recommend a non-methyl form of folate / folic acid that would not add methyl groups to my system?

    TIA!!
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  2. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Folinic acid is a non methylated folate.
     
  3. jason30

    jason30 Senior Member

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    keenly likes this.
  4. Chiron

    Chiron

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    The Andrew Cutler people are psychopathic when you raise any questions about their protocol, but I am trying to figure out if ALA can chelate iron, as I am anemic.

    All the studies relate to hemochromatosis and say that ALA can chelate out iron as well as reduce total iron binding capacity, so I'm a bit concerned about that. I can't afford to chelate out my iron.
     
  5. jason30

    jason30 Senior Member

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  6. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    As someone who spent 4 years following the Cutler Protocol and still touch base with the group, from time to time, I have one point to make. We are all different when it comes to the likelihood of developing the symptoms of heavy metal toxicity. But it can be distilled into the simple equation of "metal in vs metal out".

    If you are confident that you have been able to eliminate mercury and other metal throughout your lifetime, then you can with the same confidence take the ALA as you are planning. If you are less sure then being tested would be prudent.

    You are luckily informed on the topic. In 2008, I was not and took ALA with a very bad outcome - loss of energy, increased fog, depression and agitation. I trialled it again the following month and the results were worse. On top of that, I never found my way back to "baseline" for years.

    If you decide to go ahead, and you find any decrease in mental or emotional health, consider it a strong indicator that you should be ordering a hair test and getting it interpreted. Wishing you well.
     
  7. Chiron

    Chiron

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    I already ordered a hair test last year. It did not meet the Cutler rules according to Andy's own writings, yet some of the Cutler crowd insisted I had mineral derangement consistent with mercury. They think everything = mercury toxicity. I don't trust them to be objective. It's no different than some of the Lyme groups who think Lyme is the cause of all that ails society. They aren't medical professionals or scientists, and Andy is dead now... so there's no way to really have an honest discussion about it. As soon as you bring up more modern conflicting data they ban you. If I can't talk about the ins and outs of a protocol so that I can assess safety risk, then I'm not going to do it. I don't care what "Andy said". If it's in any way scientifically contradictory then I won't do it, and I especially won't do it if people censor me for raising these contradictions. In 20 years they will still be citing the same book that Andrew Cutler wrote and will still be banning people who present new studies, so I feel no real reason to turn to them to help me with my health problems.

    That's why I'm asking here about ALA. I have not found any data on ALA affecting anemic people, but again it's hard to say. ALA acts on mercury and zinc, both of which have molar masses which are more and less than iron, so there's no scientific reason why ALA would not chelate iron. But it might be different if iron is bound or unbound. It takes 7-10 days for an iron IV to be absorbed by the body's transferrin system. Until then it's unbound iron and may be at risk for chelation.

    Again, I can't find a lot of clear data on this... maybe because modern medicine doesn't really work with ALA, so they wouldn't be studying it.

    If turmeric can chelate iron then I would imagine ALA could too. Turmeric is food whereas ALA is an actual drug. In the absence of data, I'm looking for people who have worked with ALA to see if they noticed any changes to their iron levels.
     
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  8. jason30

    jason30 Senior Member

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    I understand your point of view, and this is really a personal decision.
    But you have to realise that this protocol has already proven its value, this protocol have helped so many people with heavy metals in their body, and helped so many children with autism and more. Andy Cutler was a very smart man who knew where he's talking about, he researched it very well and came with a protocol who helped many many many people.

    So I can imagine when someone comes into the community and starts bringing modern conflicting data, that you will get some hard reactions. Who are you to bring conflicting modern data into a protocol that has already proven it's value?
    You can always talk about all the ins and outs of the protocol, but if you doubt the protocol or don't believe / questioning it and you think you know better, then just don't follow that protocol and go to another protocol. But if you keep doing this by every existing protocol, then I don't know if you ever will find one which suits you.
     
  9. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Though I don't think that would be too useful, because we all are different, here is my data:
    (Ala and Curcumin intake per day in mg, Ferritin in ng/ml, 30-400 normal range; total iron binding capacity in µg/dl, 265-450 range)

    Code:
    year  ALA  Curc. Ferr. TIBC
    2009   70         76 
    2010  110         56 
    2011  250   500   89 
    2012  440   800   80 
    2013  360   780   71 
    2014  330   760   92 
    2015  210   630   79   223
    2016  330   930   87   256
    2017  370  1040   74   245
    2018  521  1140   79   215
    Never experienced any side-effects from ALA. Though my mouth has been full of mercury fillings at a very young age. Due to having got Tetracycline injection at birth all my teeth just crumbled as a young adult, and with that all fillings came out (tetracycline now is considered contraindicated for up to 2 years of age for that reason).
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
    stridor and Chiron like this.
  10. Chiron

    Chiron

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    I'm not here to debate the Cutler protocol or justify my opinions about it. Create a new thread. Thanks.
     
  11. Chiron

    Chiron

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    Wow, thank you for posting this really precise personal data. I'm impressed!

    There does not seem to be a correlation between ferritin and the supplements in your case. This is concurrent with a lot of the anecdotes I've been hearing.
     
    pamojja likes this.
  12. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    You might try clinicaltrials.gov where I saw 133 hits on my search for 'alpha lipoic acid'. Most won't have results, but at least you'll know what they are studying.
     
    Chiron likes this.

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