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Agmatine and Nitric Oxide.

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Ema, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I've been looking at the possibility of trying NOS inhibitors to help with mood, anxiety and hopefully pain.

    I found several listed in this article, including agmatine.

    But when I look up agmatine supplements, it seems like they are advertised to boost nitric oxide, not reduce it.

    What have I got wrong here? Shouldn't something that inhibits NOS produce less NO, not more?

    Any thoughts, @heapsreal, @Hip, @Mimi?
     
  2. deleder2k

    deleder2k Senior Member

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  3. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    According to the article I linked, I'm after an NOS inhibitor...now whether or not that is a good idea remains to be seen!

    But how can an NOS inhibitor increase NO, as per the supplement marketing? Shouldn't it decrease NO?

    What am I missing?
     
  4. deleder2k

    deleder2k Senior Member

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    Perhaps you can try something called Gaba2. My ME doc gave it to me a year ago. I didn't work me though. Didn't notice anything.


    I think research points to the fact that NOS is greatly suppressed in ME. Treatment with nitrates which boost NOS has made a majority of patients significantly better in an open trial at Haukeland. It is Fluge and Mella's main hypothesis.
     
  5. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    @Ema if you try this and get cured, please let me know!
     
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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  7. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Thanks @Hip! Lots to look through...

    Can you explain why agamatine is advertised as a nitric oxide booster if it inhibits NOS?
     
  8. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Another study that says agmatine inhibits nitric oxide...

     
    heapsreal likes this.
  9. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Nitric oxide from what i understand is ok but by products of NO produce peroxinitrate which is what causes increased oxidization.
     
    Thinktank likes this.
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I did not see many compounds in those studies that looked like they could be obtained as a supplement, so they may not be that useful.


    Possibly agmatine inhibits NOS but increases NO production overall via other mechanisms. As you know, nitric oxide metabolism is pretty complex. It does not say which type of NOS agmatine inhibits in the paper you cited; now iNOS is orders of magnitude more potent than eNOS and nNOS at creating NO, so if agmatine was only inhibiting say eNOS, then that would not reduce NOS levels very much; and if agmatine was also boosting some other aspect of nitric oxide production, then the overall result may well be an increase in NO.


    By the way, does your study say which of the three types of NOS you need to inhibit?
     
  11. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    So the abstract I just posted says that agmatine inhibits NOS2...which I think is iNOS.

    That study doesn't say...but another one says this about agmatine.

     
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I missed that post entirely. Must be going blind.


    I have tried agmatine 750 mg daily in the past. It's an NMDA receptor antagonist, so I thought it might have similar anti-anxiety effect to high-dose transdermal magnesium, which is also an NMDA receptor antagonist. However, I did not notice any effects from agmatine, whereas transdermal magnesium always creates a noticeable calming effect when I apply it.


    There are reports online of agmatine promoting the occurrence of out-of-body experiences / near-death experiences, a subject I had always been interested in. So I was kind of hoping the agmatine I took would trigger an OBE, but no such luck.
     
  13. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Oh, GREAT! Trust me, it'll happen to me. And NO THANK YOU!! :nervous:
     
    Hip likes this.
  14. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    So it seems like all the bodybuilding sites are relying on this one article that says that agmatine activates eNOS. But I think it's disingenuous not to mention that it also strongly inhibits iNOS, which is much stronger.

     
  15. South

    South Senior Member

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    @Ema If you are trying to reduce Nitric Oxide, one of the studies in this thread (I think one that Hip linked to) is this one, which states "Apigenin and quercetin were the most potent inhibitors of NO production"
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11213362

    (don't confuse apigenin with agmatine)

    Interesting because the apigenin and quercetin study seemed to actually focuse on changes in nitric oxide, not just on changes in the inos etc that then "might" change nitric oxide levels...at least that's the way I read it.

    Quercetin is easy to get in most countries as a supplement. Apigenin is equally easy to get, I just found it on several big supplement websites.

    But of course there are complications o_O

    Apigenin problem:
    According to http://examine.com/supplements/apigenin/#summary6-1
    Apigenin lowers cortisol, not good for those who have overly low cortisol already (I coudn't tell if that reference used some extremely high dose of apigenin to cause low cortisol, or if it was a realistic dose of apigenin)
    At least though, apigenin is fairly well absorbed into real animals, so the nitric oxide study might really lower nitric oxide levels in actual humans, I think...
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15466493

    Quercetin problem:
    studies on isolated cells for quercetin aren't that reliable, according to
    http://examine.com/supplements/Quercetin/
    because "cell studies [on quercetin] showing great results that are not that amazing in humans or animals. This is mostly due to quercetin having low oral bioavailability"
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
    Ema likes this.
  16. South

    South Senior Member

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    Another complication on apigenin:

    Apigenin seems to lower blood pressure in a few scattered studies. (despite lowering nitric oxide, which I thought leads to somewhat higher blood pressure, not lower blood pressure)

    And many people on this forum already have overly low blood pressure.

    I didn't find one, neat clean study on apigenin and blood pressure, it's just a bunch of bass-akwards studies that seem to imply it.

    There is this one that found apigenin to be a vasodilator:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1659912
     
  17. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I actually have a bottle of apigenin here. I try not to read too too much about supplements because I don't want to influence myself.

    I bought it because it's supposed to be good at calming down an overactive immune system and reducing systemic inflammation.

    The cortisol connection is definitely interesting though. I guess it doesn't matter for me though since I replace cortisol.

    The vasodilation worries me a bit because of migraine though.

    Very interesting! Thanks!
     
    South likes this.

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