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Acetyl l carnitine

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Elizabeth3333, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. Elizabeth3333

    Elizabeth3333

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    I've been taking it for a while and it's one of the few things that help me. I'm having a lot of issues figuring out the optimal dosage and times to give a day though. Anyone have any advice?
     
    Jennifer J and Sidny like this.
  2. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    For me, l-carnitine prevented worsening of symptoms from eating meat fats (probably palmitic acid). I think I took half a tsp, maybe less, with the meal. Carnitine didn't seem to provide any other benefits for me. After some months of taking it, I no longer reacted to meat fats. I take some of the remainder occasionally, to see if it has any effect, but so far it hasn't.

    ME is a disorder where it varies too much between individuals to follow someone else's optimum dosage. I suggest experimenting with dosages and time, and recording that, to figure out what is your optimum dosage and timing. I also suggest recording foods, activities, and symptoms, with times, to help figure out which foods and activities affect your symptoms. Keeping that journal has been the most useful advice I've received about dealing with ME.
     
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  3. Richard7

    Richard7 Senior Member

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    I use 2g of ALCAR each day divided into a morning and afternoon dose

    https://examine.com/supplements/l-carnitine/
    says
     
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  4. Busson

    Busson

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    @Richard7 I too found l-carnitine was useful if I ate too much meat or any protein for that matter. In my case it turns out that l-carntine helps to flush out the toxins from excess propionic acid. Propionic acid along with methylmalonic acid is formed when one of the two pathways which depends on B12 is blocked by deficiency.

    Propionic acid gives me a lot of brain fog and makes me feel generally very unwell especially an hour after eating protein. When my symptoms are severe I think ammonia is also accumulating and 5g arginine also helps.

    All this is only dealing with the symptoms and the real answer for me is to deal with the B12 shortage.
     
  5. Richard7

    Richard7 Senior Member

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    @Busson that is interesting.

    Over production of propionate in the descending colon is considered to be a problem in autism by Derrick MacFabe.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4451098/

    At the moment I am trying keto in the hope that it will provide me with some energy, reduce inflammation and that the BHOB will out-compete the propionate at the blood brain barrier.

    The most obvious effect I found when taking ALCAR was that it pretty much eliminated muscle soreness. They still hurt when I do too much, and indeed they have been hurting more on the ketogenic diet, but they used to hurt all the time no matter what I did.
     
  6. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    I assumed that my issues with fatty acids had to do with transport across the mitochondrial membrane. L-carnitine does the transporting. I didn't know why elevated palmitic acid in the cytoplasm but not transported into the mitochondria would cause symptoms, but it seemed like a reasonable hypothesis. I'm not sure whether excess propionic acid fits the observations, but I'll think about it.
     
  7. Busson

    Busson

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    @Wishful I'm no expert at all and I can only say what I found in myself.

    Interestingly, meat fat and dairy products contain odd chain fatty acids which will cause raised propionic and methylmalonic acid. The role of carnitine for this condition is described in section 4B of this paper. In my case this is one of the symptoms of a rare vitamin B12 disorder although in your case it may be something completely different.

    http://newenglandconsortium.org/for...rganic-acid-disorders/methylmalonic-acidemia/

    It took me 10 years of severely declining health to realise the full significance of that observation, which is almost identical to one I made. As my metabolism gets better and worse over a period of months, this response can come and go which made it hard to observe.
     
  8. Wishful

    Wishful Senior Member

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    Okay, MMA doesn't seem to fit me. No nausea, no liver problems. I seem quite healthy apart from ME symptoms. I think my issues were with palmitic acid alone, but I wasn't able to find a source of mostly-palmitic acid to experiment with to verify that. The foods that bothered me (without supplemental carnitine) were all high in palmitic; oily foods that didn't bother me were low in palmitic acid.

    I got lucky with figuring out the carnitine link. I could tolerate about 200 g of beef, <30 g of pork, and not even a bite of chicken. While looking into something else, I came across a list of foods containing carnitine, and noticed that beef had lots, pork had about 1/6th the amount, and chicken had almost none. Correlation! Based on that, I bought some carnitine, and a tsp of that allowed me to eat half a chicken without symptoms. I could enjoy meat again! :)

    I think most discoveries are accidental. Hard work in research just makes those accidents more likely. ;)
     
  9. Busson

    Busson

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    These metabolic disorders are notorious hard to identify. Palmitic acid does not seem a particularly strong candidate as the body normally has large amounts of it without toxicity.

    There are some metabolic conditions which alone deplete carntine to deficient levels.

    The adverse reaction to chicken is striking. When I was very ill, I reacted particularly badly to chicken and also fish got stroke-like symptoms. Beef and pork were okay.

    I wonder if antibiotics, when you take them, really pick you up more than other people experience.
     
  10. Seven (formerly lnester7)

    Seven (formerly lnester7) Seven

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    I saw on a mito video to do 1,000mg a day. I take the GNC l cartinine w ALA two pills a day!!! Do great for energy and as a bonus is takes care of brain burning that is sooo bad.
     

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