A histamine question

[Aerowallah]

Silly question--how is anyone here actually diagnosing histamine intolerance in the first place. Saliva test? Niacin?

Reread Gondwanaland's comment that "probx at first improve histamine metabolism and then overburden the system with all kinds of amines. I had to carefully supplement myself out of it with small amounts of B2, B6 and, more importantly, B5 since the downstream byproduct of amines is uric acid (so careful with B2). Magnesium is important to conter the acidity from urates..."

Before trying the kefir again successfully I added wild sardines on alternate days in preference to more pills, as fiddling with B-doses and cofactors is too problematic for me. But one of the few pills I currently take is magnesium malate or glycinate. His comment may explain my much better tolerance this time around.

 

[Gondwanaland]

. But one of the few pills I currently take is magnesium malate or glycinate.

Interestingly the only form of magnesium I ever tolerated is magnesium oxide. Glicyne is a purine and worsens my situation, and malate solubilizes urate and I get too much urate in my blood risking of clotting (happened before) and creating salicylate sensitivity.

 

[Aerowallah]

Rechecked my bottle of TM electrolytes. I am taking 600 mg of mag in "liquid ionic" form whatever that is in addition to 200 glycinate. Was always told to avoid mg oxide because of its poor absorption.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Was always told to avoid mg oxide because of its poor absorption.

Me too, and this avoidance cost me almost a year of suffering due to low magnesium. But actually MgO works well only for a reduced number of people unfortunately.

 

[Johnmac]

I read that L. rhamnous, B infantis, and B. Longum suppresses histamine.

Yep (tho I have seen some strains appear on both pro- and anti-histamine lists, so I'm not sure the matter is settled).

My problem was that I couldn't get rhamnosus separately, so cultured it from Vaalia yogurt - which also contains a couple of other more 'histaminic' strains.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I just found out that L. casei eats B6, so there you have it why histamine can build up

 

[Jimbo39]

just found out that L. casei eats B6, so there you have it why histamine can build up

It would explain why those of us who have an overgrowth of these bad bugs (salmonella, E. coli) also have a B6 deficiency.

Maybe that's why people do much better with oils and sublinguals?

Maybe a combination of oral and oils/sublinguals is needed: oral to counteract histamine and oils/sublinguals to address B6 deficiency?

 

[Johnmac]

I get most of them from iherb.

There are many possibilities, I just tried to stick to things that were fairly unrefined, with a variety of different prebiotic types.



Different not better or worse. Here are some brief notes on various prebiotic sources. As usual I ran out of energy to complete the list but it gives an idea of variety.

aloe vera inner leaf predominantly acetylated glucomannan
benefibre is hydrolysed wheat dextrin (RS4)
acacia gum is predominantly arabinogalactan
baobab powder is a source of pectin, polyglucuronic-galacturonic, polyphenols and other fibres
larch is a source of arabinogalactans - good for bifido - reduces NH3
psyllium is a source of arabinoxylans
raw potato starch is a source of RS2 - increases butyrate, acetate, propionate production in vivo
Artinia is a source of insoluble β1-4 N-acetyl D-glucosamine chitin-glucan - liked by Roseburia and other cluster XIVa
PGX is a source of glucomannan, glucomannan/glucuronate; mannuronic/guluronic acids
Fucoidin (from seaweed) is predominantly sulfated polyfucose
Mushrooms are a source of polymers of N-acetylglucosmine (chitin), βglucans and mannans
fructans (inulin/FOS) enhance Ca uptake in gut;
Pectins increase acetate production in vivo

Thanks again @alicec for going beyond the call of duty.

I've copied that list onto my iHerb file, & will also try & get some of them locally.

 

[Eastman]

Tim Steele at The Potato Hack Chronicle just posted the following:

In Search of the Perfect Fiber (Part 1…quantity)

In Search of the Perfect Fiber (Part 2…food)

In Search of the Perfect Fiber (Part 3…supplements)

In Search of the Perfect Fiber (Part 4…’ancient’ science)

In Search of the Perfect Fiber (Part 5…the future!)

 

[alicec]

Tim Steele at The Potato Hack Chronicle just posted the following:

Thanks for that. I haven't looked at Tim Steele for ages. It's great to see so much good info gathered together in one place.

 

[Johnmac]

Tim Steele at The Potato Hack Chronicle just posted the following:

In Search of the Perfect Fiber (Part 1…quantity)

In Search of the Perfect Fiber (Part 2…food)

In Search of the Perfect Fiber (Part 3…supplements)

In Search of the Perfect Fiber (Part 4…’ancient’ science)

In Search of the Perfect Fiber (Part 5…the future!)

Yes, thanks a lot @Eastman. Just what I was looking for too. I'll have a read & report back...

 

[Oci]

Me too. Much appreciated, @Eastman

 

[Aerowallah]

Hi, Dan.

I'm sorry to hear that you've been having a difficult time since starting the methylation treatment combined with probiotics. I've heard from another person who had problems with anxiety and insomnia on this combination. In his case, we eventually realized that the probiotic bacteria were capable of synthesizing folate, and we came to suspect that this was effectively raising his dosage of chemically reduced folate, which is one of the key ingredients in the methylation treatment. This would have the effect of lifting the partial block in the methylation cycle more rapidly, which in turn would bring on the renewed function of the detox system more rapidly. Perhaps this would account for the more rapid mobilization of heavy metals that your physician found. I'm glad to hear that you have backed off on the treatments. It may take some time for the folate levels to drop, so that the detox will slow down. After that happens, you might consider doing the probiotic treatment separate from the methylation treatment. The combination may be too much for your body to tolerate.

Best regards,

Rich

For those methylating and taking probiotics, this is from an earlier thread. Probiotics have a broader effect on detox, mobilizing metals, die-off etc. Hard to know what is simply histamine sensitivity without a test.

 

[slysaint]

strong steriod cream.

sorry to but in; anyone using steroid creams please Google 'Red skin syndrome', 'steroid induced eczema', ITSAN.

 

[Jimbo39]

For those methylating and taking probiotics, this is from an earlier thread. Probiotics have a broader effect on detox, mobilizing metals, die-off etc. Hard to know what is simply histamine sensitivity without a test.

So taking probiotics on top of increasing my b protocol probably increased folate which caused herxing/die off. I've always felt this was the cause of my histamine reaction. Since going back to my original doses, I feel much better. Start low and go slow.

 

[Demepivo]

sorry to but in; anyone using steroid creams please Google 'Red skin syndrome', 'steroid induced eczema', ITSAN.

@slysaint Thanks for your post. Yes, steroid creams are a short term solution to eczema etc. They do reduce inflammation quickly so are extremely useful used in the right way.

@Jimbo39 Note that probiotics & fermented foods can increase levels of histamine and cause problems. Balance is the key as always.

 

[slysaint]

there was a program on BBC last night 'Trust me I'm a Doctor'.
Interesting new treatment being developed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/art...ptoms-and-offer-an-alternative-to-antibiotics

eta: not related to histamine but thought anyone with eczema would be interested

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

there was a program on BBC last night 'Trust me I'm a Doctor'.
Interesting new treatment being developed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/art...ptoms-and-offer-an-alternative-to-antibiotics

Yes I saw that too. Wasnt it for staph aureus eczema though? I thought they said staph aureus produces a toxin not histamine? Perhaps I missed the point.