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7 Day NAD+ Infusions (Severe ME/CFS Recovery, Neurological / Mitochondrial / Genetic Repair) + POLL

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Jesse2233, Feb 17, 2018.

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What is your experience with NAD+ ?

  1. I had the full NAD+ IV protocol and benefitted (7+ infusions)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. I had the full NAD+ IV protocol and did not benfit (7+ infusions)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I had 1-6 NAD+ IVs and benefitted

    2 vote(s)
    6.5%
  4. I had 1-6 NAD+ IVs and did not benefit

    1 vote(s)
    3.2%
  5. I tried and benefited from nasal NAD+

    0 vote(s)
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  6. I tried but did not benefit from nasal NAD+

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  7. I tried and benefited from oral NAD+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. I tried but did not benefit from oral NAD+

    4 vote(s)
    12.9%
  9. I tried and benefited from transdermal NAD+ (patch)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. I tried but did not benefit from transdermal NAD+ (patch)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. I have not tried NAD+ but have benefited from a NAD+ precursor (NIAGEN, Niacin, B3, NADH etc)

    4 vote(s)
    12.9%
  12. I have not tried NAD+ and have not benefited from a NAD+ precursor (NIAGEN, Niacin, B3, NADH etc)

    6 vote(s)
    19.4%
  13. I have never tried any form of NAD+ or NAD+ precursor

    14 vote(s)
    45.2%
  1. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I will after I do it and I'm sure they have a workable process, ok? I've had to be really persistent to get through to them and I want to be sure they deliver on what sounds very good. It should be 2-3 weeks until I get my results... I'm waiting on my test kit now.
     
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  2. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    Excellent point. Mito dysfunction is not a monolithic issue even if it results in a systemic set of common issues.

    The question would then be “what kind of mito issues is NAD+ best suited to and which are better served with PC, immunotherapy, carnitine, or CoQ10?”

    I still have a hunch NAD+’s range is pretty big but there’s very likely types of dysfunction it’s better suited to. Of course it also functions as a neurotransmitter and an instrument of DNA repair so there are layers of complexity
     
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  3. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    This is really a philosophical question but I often wonder what’s more likely to be primary...

    - A chronic infection that lucked out in establishing a foothold in a healthy person

    - A runaway immune system that can’t calm down

    - A vulnerable energy production system that gets tipped into chaos by environmental factors

    If it’s the last one, then perhaps one of the vulnerable progenitors is a congital inabiltiy to produce sufficient surplus NAD+. Maybe these NAD+ stores get worse with age and various traumas (of which infection is an especially potent one).

    Of course you don’t see many 60+ year olds suddenly coming down with CFS, and that’s when NAD+ stores should be lowest, so this theory may be overly simplistic
     
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  4. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Having spent more time than I ever thought I would around senior living, assisted living, rehab facilities and skilled nursing facilities, I couldn't help but observe that most of the inhabitants seem to suffer from a growing snowball over the years of malnutrition.

    Just my opinion. But, when I see the nutrient poor white food that these places seem to specialize in, and the people seem to.like, it confirms my suspicions.

    And then making a game of watching what people choose to eat for lunch at the well stocked buffet in my office building, where healthy choices abound, but 75% of people choose sad little piles of brown and white food rather than colorful nutrient dense food with adequate healthy fat. The trajectory from age 30 to age 80 becomes apparent...

    So, it doesn't surprise me that people lack NAD+, a niacin derivative.

    And amino acids and lipids build structures in our bodies, while other nutrients provide the biochemistry for our bodies' systems to work. People lack a lot of things. Oxygen is another key ingredient our bodies need - hypoxia leads to disease.

    Keeping our nutrient levels topped off is very important, because then our bodies should be able to do the many jobs they need to do. Without them, we're compromised.

    These are excellent questions/observations. This is what we need to figure out.
     
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  5. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    I will be starting a series of NAD+ infusions with Meyers and aminos Monday! Will keep everyone posted
     
  6. pattismith

    pattismith Senior Member

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    I am convinced as well that my grand parents death was precipitated by the few years they have spent in their nursing home, with the poor nutrition.:cry:


    Jesse, when you will have the answer, I think you will get the nobel prize!
     
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  7. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    Are you going to a NAD treatment center and paying a ton for it/? Or are you getting a doctor to give it to you much cheaper?
     
  8. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    I’m going to a clinic that does various IV therapies. Luckily my insurance will cover
     
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  9. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    My insurance won't cover it.
     
  10. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    Perhaps they'd be more likely to cover it if the treatment/bill is presented as "nutritional IV" rather than something exotic like NAD+ therapy from a addiction clinic.

    Does your insurance cover your current nutritional infusion with the added low dose of NAD+?
     
  11. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    In researching NAD+, I saved a lot of links and sent them to my parents and my doctor so they can learn about it. I'm posting it here as an information dump. I hope that's okay. Next post and its links are more important.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thread on Phoenix Rising
    (where I first learned about IV NAD+. Pretty short thread.)
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ical-mitochondrial-genetic-repair-poll.57797/
    Podcast about IV NAD+
    Good background and primer on it - much better than next link. Interviews patient who cured his CFS, Ph.D who researches NAD+, and MD who runs NAD Infusion center. Can listen to audio or read trasncript. Worth reading whole thing. Skim the comments too.
    Audio: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/anti-aging-podcasts/what-is-nad/
    Transcript: https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/transcripts/transcript-what-is-nad/
    Short Scientific Explanation & Background:
    http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/2947-its-a-nad-nad-nad-nad-world
    http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/2986-its-a-nad-nad-nad-nad-world-part-ii
    http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/676-can-nad-help-extend-human-lifespan

    More Background (not that great)
    :
    NAD+ Therapy primer and proposes Energy Value indicator from lactate and pyruvate levels. From South Africa and preceded any US NAD clinic by 10+ years.
    http://www.lunaliving.org/pdf/nad_therapy_e-book.pdfDon't read. Just skim pages 1-10, 34-105. (Isn't actuallly 150 pages. Pages 106-150 are references. Skip pages 10-33. Skim rest: 1-10, 34-105, with large chucks able to be skipped. So it's probably really just ~15 pages of worth skimming.)

    NAD+ in Press:
    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/beyond-resveratrol-the-anti-aging-nad-fad/
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4370092/Is-pink-pill-elixir-youth.html
    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bn3vmq/nad-plus-brain-reboot-infusion-injection

    Important Papers on NAD+ and aging:
    Declining NAD+ Induces a Pseudohypoxic State [my emphsis] Disrupting Nuclear-Mitochondrial Communication during Aging, which we show is reversable (Pseudohypoxic state has been used to describe the pathology of CFS/ME, like a form of sepsis)
    https://hms.harvard.edu/news/genetics/new-reversible-cause-aging-12-19-13
    Full paper & abstract: http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(13)01521-3

    NAD Key in Autoimmune Disease: delays disease onset and reverses disease progression

    https://hms.harvard.edu/news/new-discovery-regulating-autoimmune-diseases
    Full paper and abstract: https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6101

    NAD+ Is a Food Component That Promotes Exit from Dauer Diapause in Caenorhabditis elegans

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0167208
    Note: Naviaux called CFS/ME a "dauer" state and said our metabolimics and disease most closely resembled the dauer state in C. elegans. He's used this same model and dauer state for our disease.
    Discussion: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...that-promotes-exit-from-dauer-diapause.57363/

    Other NAD+ Papers and Research:
    NAD+ and NADH in cellular functions and cell death
    NAD+ and NADH in brain functions, brain diseases, and brain aging
    NAD+/NADH and NADP+/NADPH in cell ular functions and cell death: regulation and biological consequences.

    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53580835e4b0c3ad7382ddb6/t/5384b2b3e4b0b1911ba23a44/1401205427488/J) NAD+.pdf

    Neuronal death induced by misfolded prion protein is due to NAD+ depletion and can be relieved in vitro and in vivo by NAD+ replenishment.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25678560

    Prevention of Traumatic Brain Injury-Induced Neuron Death by Intranasal Delivery of Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide
    http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/neu.2011.2228

    NAD+ Intermediates: The Biology and Therapeutic Potential of NMN and NRNeed to use ATP to convert NR to NAD+
    http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(17)30670-8

    Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, a Key NAD+ Intermediate, Treats the Pathophysiology of Diet- and Age-Induced Diabetes in Mice. Cell Metabolism.
    https://www.decodedscience.org/nmn-nicotinamide-mononucleotide-lowers-blood-glucose-in-mice/3616

    "Clocks" in the NAD World: NAD as a metabolic oscillator for the regulation of circadian rhythem, metabolism, and aging.
    http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/19897060

    Pharmacological Effects of Exogenous NAD on Mitochondrial Bioenergetics, DNA Repair, and Apoptosis
    http://molpharm.aspetjournals.org/content/molpharm/early/2011/09/14/mol.111.073916.full.pdf

    Differences Between NAD+ Metabolites Nicotinamide Mononucleotide (NMN) and Nicotinamide Riboside (NR):
    Niagen offers NR and that's what has been done in human studies showing increase in NAD+. It's also a product that came out first. NMN appears to be better, but there's only a few products of it out there and there isn't a human study showing its effectiveness. TokyoU & WashU are starting a human trial in 2018 to be done in 2020. Links below is from a site that sells NMN supplements, but has some good graphs and data from the research. The site may have more pages that show more info too.
    http://alivebynature.com/nmn-or-nr-whats-the-best-nad-booster-3/
    http://alivebynature.com/about-niagen/
    http://alivebynature.com/does-nr-break-down-to-nam-before-nad/
    http://alivebynature.com/in-nmn-the-best-way-to-improve-your-healthspan/
    http://alivebynature.com/nicotinamide-riboside-optimum-dosage/

    Interesting Evidence:
    Total and complete normalization of QEEG scan by NAD+. Look at before and after pictures. Same type of scan I had for neurobiofeedback (they even mention Dr. Jay Gunkelman who read my scan). A lot more effective than neurobiofeedback ever was.
    https://emerald-neuro-recover.com/brain-scan

    "NeuroRecover ™ has been shown on SPECT brain scans performed at the Dr. Daniel Amen Clinics, in images taken before and after treatment, to promptly bring about significant improvement in function in the drug-damaged brain." I'm emailing and waiting to hear if they have pictures/evidence/a case study of this claim.
    http://chwbonline.com/medical-services/neurorecover/

    Compounding Pharmacies that Sell It

    https://supplementpolice.com/nad/#comment-21937
    Archway Apocathy in Louisiana (also do a nasal spray & oral NAD+)
    Anazoa Phamacy in Tampa​
    https://www.alternet.org/drugs/does...iracle-cure-addiction-and-disease-really-work
    Hayden Pharmacy​
    https://www.reddit.com/r/StackAdvice/comments/5pq00p/where_to_get_iv_nad_solution/
    College Pharmacy
    Comment saying a "full protocol" costs $1,000 from College Pharmacy and having a doctor friend prescribe it.​

    NAD+ Infusion Clinics Pages:
    Springfield Wellness started/brought NAD in/to the US. Longest running clinc providing NAD and have developed the protocols.
    http://www.springfieldwellnesscenter.com/
    https://custommedicine.com.au/nad-nicotinamide-adenine-dinucleotide/
    https://innovativemedicine.com/closer-look-nad-brain-restoration-therapy/
    https://www.ivforlife.com/nad-fountain-youth-2/
    http://chwbonline.com/medical-services/neurorecover/

    Conference on NAD+ Therapy:
    https://www.nadsummit2018.com/
    http://www.brplusnadsummit.com/about-our-summit/
    (From the podcast interview) http://www.brplusnadsummit.com/ross-grant-phd/
    (From next NAD+ email and blog, Anti-agingFirewall.com) http://www.brplusnadsummit.com/james-paul-watson-m-d/

    Videos / Testimonials
    Parkinsons and NAD+


    Alzheimer's and NAD+

    NADH (not NAD+) and Parkinsons (There have been previous, older studies of NADH improving Parkinsons. This video is pretty extraordinary.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  12. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    Another information dump.

    @Learner1, if you read this 5 part review of NAD+ research, the author, Guilliano, explains how restoring NAD+ levels can actually reduce overall inflammation and mitochondrial inflammation. NAD+ is actually a key mechanism to controlling inflammation. So, there's some evidence that you might not spin the mitochondrial to cause excessive inflammation.

    To others, if you can handle deep scientific literature, then these links is all you need to read on NAD+.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Very good blog that has a HUGE amount of VERY in-depth research on antiaging science: http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/. I mean the depth, detail, and complexity this blogger/scientist covers is remarkable and overwhelming. He has very good articles on all kinds of things, so it's worth browsing the rest of it looking at the article titles. But he goes on a 5 Part review of research into NAD+ that I will link and try to summarize below. Make sure to read the comments at the end/bottom of each article/blog entry.

    About the Site/Author:
    The author, Vince Guiliano Ph.D.He's currently 88 years old and started the blog when he was 79. He has a PhD in applied physics from Harvard. His first blog post explains what he's does 30-60 hours per week of longevity/anti-aging research. His bio is at the bottom of any blogs writen by him (can't link directly to it). A different bio is here:
    http://www.vincegiuliano.name/VGBIObiotech2011.htm

    He also has a co-blogger, James P. Watson MD that's contributed a lot to the NAD+ articles. He's spoken at an AMMG meetings and has one talk on youtube. His bio is at the bottom of each blog he writes, but also found here:
    http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/author/james-watson/

    Link to picture of NAD+ pathways/metabolism:
    The NAD+ metablism and the different forms of it can be very confusing. So below are some pictures of good metabolish pathways. Part 1 of the blog series has a glossary of all the terms.
    http://alivebynature.com/june/wp-content/uploads/NAD-metabolism-in-humans.jpg
    https://www.researchgate.net/figure...thways-The-reactions-marked-with_fig8_6470310

    Slideshow Presentation (Condensed Overview)
    Author gave a talk that is basically a condensed summary of his 5 part review. He also links to his slides. At the bottom of the article he lists the 5 parts of his NAD+ review.
    http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/2018/01/16/tales-nad-presentation-coming/
    (Direct Link to Slides:www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/__oneclick_uploads/2018/01/Giuliano-Lecture-on-NAD2-4-18.pptx)

    Notable quotes / bullet points from blog entry and slides
    :

    NAD+ an emerging framework for health and life extension
    Part 1: The NAD World
    http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/...rk-for-life-extension-part-1-the-nad-world-2/
    Part 2: Deeper into the NAD Wrold and Hopeful Interventions
    http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/...per-into-the-nad-world-hopeful-interventions/
    Part 3: 30 Major Factors that Control SIRT1 Expression, SIRT1 Activity, and SIRT1-mediated Aging
    http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/...ging-framework-for-health-and-life-extension/
    Part 4: The NQ01 gene, the Warburg effect, SIRT 1 and inflammation, and possible interventions
    http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/2015/05/01/part-4-of-the-nad-world-the-nq1-gene-the-warburg-effect-sirt-1-and-inflammation-and-possible-interventions/
    Part 5: the conflicting roles of NAMPT – inflammation or rescue? Also Part 1 on a new series on inflammation
    http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/...-also-part-1-on-a-new-series-on-inflammation/
    Part 6: How Google is getting into NAD+ businesss, why Google’s strategy will fail, why NR/NMN/NAD+ will not stop aging.
    Not yet published

    Other Articles that Discuss NAD+:
    http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/...list-of-things-i-learned-about-aging-in-2013/
    http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/...lation-nmn-preventing-diabetes-and-longevity/
    http://www.anti-agingfirewalls.com/2014/04/14/shedding-new-light-on-circadian-rhythms/
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  13. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Thanks digging this up! I'll read through it.

    This could be why oxygen therapies are helpful too (written from inside an HBOT...)

    From what I've seen this far, NAD+ is a great tool. I feel much better after today's IV containing it.:thumbsup:

    However, if mitochondrial membranes are damaged, mitochondria are filled with toxic stuff as in the photos I posted above (which came straight from the researcher I met at a mitochondrial conference), or mtDNA is damaged, you can take all the NAD+ in the world and it won't fix those problems. One needs additional interventions for these.

    One other point... Nicotinamide riboside, niacinamide, and NAD+ are not the same substance and not interchangeable for many of us. They may be in healthy athletes, but we may have broken pathways that make us need NAD+. I've tried 2 45 day experiments 8 months apart with 1g of NR which did absolutely nothing for me, while NADH helped some, but NAD+ is like rocket fuel.
     
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  14. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    Yeah, I hear you. This video of a presentation Bill Faloon (founder of Life Extension Magazine and Foundation), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z44di2AEWz4, discusses 2 interventions that may be applicable to solving these mitochondial issues. I haven't investigated or researched them (nor totally comprehend the finer points of your arguement), so you will have to look into each of them.

    Particularily, Purge senescent cells with dasatinib/quercetin and Remove cellular debris with rapamycin might be helpful.

    Slide of the presentation and topics discussed:
    Screenshot-2018-3-8 RAADfest 2017 with Bill Faloon - Broadcast version 28 min - YouTube.png

    He also talks briefly about NAD+ and even shows that he himself has undergone IV NAD+ therapy. He also says that he's funded a small study looking at NAD+ and claims to have its results out soon.

    The conference he was giving his presentation was called RAADFest and is an antiaging science conference discussing the latest radical technologies.
     
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  15. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    I'm sure you're aware of Phosphatidylcholine IV Therapy aka Lipid Replacement Therapy aka Phophoglycolipid IV Therapy that is supposedly able to repair mitochondrial and cellular membranes.
     
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  16. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    @junkcrap50 great compilation of resources!

    What are your thoughts / overall impression of NAD+ IV therapy after reading everything?
     
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  17. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    PC is just one lipid, and one needs a functioning Kennedy pathway to make all the conversions to the other phospholipids. NT Factor has the correct ratio of all the lipids.
     
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  18. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    I would like to know what kind of insurance would cover NAD infusions?
     
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  19. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Me too.
     
  20. Jesse2233

    Jesse2233 Senior Member

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    PM me and I’ll share my insurance
     

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