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NAG helps noticeably but why?

Messages
14
Hi guys,

After trying tons of supplements I have finally come across something that actually helps - not significantly but noticable enough. It has reduced my brain fog 15-20% and given me 10-15 % boast in energy. It doesn't sound a lot but anything is welcome. So, why is NAG helping me and the other supplements which are too many to list unhelpful?

I have noticed that I urinate more often than normal on NAG which is little annoying but I hope it doesn't point to something serious. I also notice it doesn't work if I continue to use it unless I give it a few days or week break. Anyone else have similar experience?

Finally can you recommend some supplements which might amplify the effects of NAG due to their similar anti inflammatory nature. I personally believe most of my symptoms are inflammatory in nature so If I can address that I might come across significant improvements. Thanks to @Hip for suggesting NAG
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
Hi guys,

After trying tons of supplements I have finally come across something that actually helps - not significantly but noticable enough. It has reduced my brain fog 15-20% and given me 10-15 % boast in energy. It doesn't sound a lot but anything is welcome. So, why is NAG helping me and the other supplements which are too many to list unhelpful?

I have noticed that I urinate more often than normal on NAG which is little annoying but I hope it doesn't point to something serious. I also notice it doesn't work if I continue to use it unless I give it a few days or week break. Anyone else have similar experience?

Finally can you recommend some supplements which might amplify the effects of NAG due to their similar anti inflammatory nature. I personally believe most of my symptoms are inflammatory in nature so If I can address that I might come across significant improvements. Thanks to @Hip for suggesting NAG
NAG is immunomodulatory, according to this study.

Virtually all proteins on the surface of cells, including immune cells such as T-cells, are modified by complex sugar molecules of variable sizes and composition. Recent studies have linked changes in these sugars to T-cell hyperactivity and autoimmune disease.

In mouse models of MS-like autoimmune disease, Demetriou and his team found that GlcNAc given orally to those with leg weakness suppressed T-cell hyperactivity and autoimmune response by increasing sugar modifications to the T-cell proteins, thereby reversing the progression to paralysis.

The study comes on the heels of others showing the potential of GlcNAc in humans. One reported that eight of 12 children with treatment-resistant autoimmune inflammatory bowel disease improved significantly after two years of GlcNAc therapy. No serious adverse side effects were noted.

"Together, these findings identify metabolic therapy using dietary supplements such as GlcNAc as a possible treatment for autoimmune diseases," said Demetriou, associate director of UCI's Multiple Sclerosis Research Center. "Excitement about this strategy stems from the novel mechanism for affecting T-cell function and autoimmunity - the targeting of a molecular defect promoting disease - and its availability and simplicity."
 
Messages
14
How long would you say it took to produce those benefits? Was it within hours of taking NAG, or did it take days or weeks?
Usually within hours or day and If I don't take it for a day I can see the losses immediately. Though the effects are not always consistent in terms effectiveness. When I take 1500mg on an empty stomach i notice the effects more, and while taking it on a full stomach i notice less or nothing at all sometimes. I also notice less benefits if I take less than 1500mg. I'm thinking of increase the dosage to 2+ but I'm not sure of the long term side effects especially since reading somewhere about risks of diabetes.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
Usually within hours or day and If I don't take it for a day I can see the losses immediately.

Sounds like it could be the anti-inflammatory effect of NAG that is helping you, or the fact that NAG reduces the Th17 immune response. Maybe other supplements that reduce brain inflammation might help, such as turmeric 1000 mg twice daily (not the same as curcumin).
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
I don't know a lot about this supplement (even though I took it as part of a "GI Repair Powder" from a naturopath in early 2014). I was just discussing it with @mariovitali who might have some ideas about it. Unless there is more than one supplement called "NAG" (but I don't think so)?
 

mariovitali

Senior Member
Messages
1,214
NAG usefulness is twofold : It helps with T Cell activation but also helps with the Unfolded Protein response that takes place (Hypothesis). I notified Researchers about this hypothesis as early as 2015.

Here are two excerpts from the now infamous Research document i circulated starting from October 2010 :

Screen Shot 2018-05-24 at 05.11.23.png
Screen Shot 2018-05-24 at 05.10.07.png


The point which i am trying to make for some time now (3 years) is that we need a personalised regimen that creates the necessary environment for recovery.All it takes is for Researchers to give this personalised regimen a try.

@Hindi1989

I Hypothesise that you may have issues to Protein Folding / Unfolded Protein response Genes and this is why NAG helps you. But to get the most benefit you should also look at other Pathways (which are being discussed in the document i mentioned).

Turmeric that @Hip suggests may or may not help you (and actually bring a negative result) according to my research as it may impair the function of certain CYPs in the Liver
 
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mariovitali

Senior Member
Messages
1,214
Thanks @mariovitali
Can you please list the supplements that they recommend?

I assume that by "they" you mean the authors of the Research document? I was the one who wrote this and there are several supplements being mentioned however this document is not circulated to non-researchers because i wouldn't want people starting taking supplements in a non-informed way. Apart from this, the hypothesis is that these supplements should be taken according to each individual's DNA.

Thanks @mariovitali
Also, what do you make of increased urination thay I am getting and that it might increase blood sugars in people with diabetes? Also can you explain the unfolded protein response in laymen's terms? :)

https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-619/n-acetyl-glucosamine

Regarding NAG : You should definitely check if you are diabetic /pre-diabetic. Have you ever tested hba1c? Have you ever had a Glucose Intolerance Test? It is better to discuss your concerns with a Doctor.

The UPR (Unfolded Protein Response) and ER (Endoplasmic Reticulum) Stress are two very large subjects and their importance on many types of disease are now beginning to be understood.

Here is a nice video i found, i hope you find it useful :


 

Diwi9

Administrator
Messages
1,780
Location
USA
Thanks @mariovitali Also, what do you make of increased urination thay I am getting and that it might increase blood sugars in people with diabetes?
@Hindi1989 - Consider having your arginine vasopressin (also known as "anti-diuretic hormone") tested through a blood test. It may be low, which is not uncommon for people with ME/CFS, causing the need to urinate frequently. It can be treated with desmopressin and an increased intake of salt and fluids.
 

gumman123

Senior Member
Messages
103
We make glucosamine through the hexosamine pathway (google image it). 2-3% of the glucose we use each day goes through the pathway which makes NAG, sialic acid, and possibly other amino sugars. Amino sugars are also called the 8 essential sugars. Google them for websites on it. We make them all from glucose. There seems to be an overlap between the 8 essential sugars, and glycos amino glycans. Of them all glucosamine seems to be the most important. Chitin is what animal shells are made of, and it is repeating units of NAG. Prawn shells, crab shells, lobster shells, snail shells, cockraoch shells etc. NAG is the second most abundant poly saccharide in nature after cellulose in grass. Type in chitin on youtube to see how chitosan- which is repeating units of glucosamine, and NAG, and glucosamine supplements are made from it.

Prawns shells are 28% chitin
crab shells 68%
lobster shells 80%
cuttlefish 25%

the entire hexosamine pathway is in their shells so eating them gives NAG, and all the enzymes/intermediates in the pathway.
I blended 100g of prawns whole today, and drank them, and ate some cuttlefish from the supermarket yesterday, and have ordered 1kg of cuttlefish on ebay, and will eat 20g or so a day. Cuttlefish also has calcium, and is good for the teeth to eat. I might have a problem in the hexosamine pathway at the point of GFPT1 so will be taking a glucosamine supplement or eating one of those foods everyday for the rest of my life.
Will be trying lobster shells soon too.

Type in glycomics on youtube for info on glyco nutrients. Over 50% of all proteins are glycoproteins. Glyco nutrients are an overlooked nutrient. Some compounding chemists or companies sell blends of herbs that contain all 8 essential sugars.

Egg shell membrane also contains all of them plus collagen, and other important proteins. I eat a few a day. Crack some eggs into a cup, then grab the shell, and membrane, and peel out the membrane or just eat the whole shell which provides calcium too.

Another source of glyconutrients is bone broth. Buy bones from supermarket/butchers then put them in slow cooker in water for 24-48 hours, and all the connective tissue dissolves off. It is possible to eat some of it off raw but some is too stuck to the bones to eat raw so has to be dissolved off or maybe put in the oven under high heat which I will try soon.

Other sources of glucosamine per websites on it for dogs- chicken feet, pigs ears, green lipped mussels (they sell them in cans in supermarkets in australia which is convenient), beef trachea.

If NAG helps one of those foods might help even more.
 

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,561
Location
Seattle
Usually within hours or day and If I don't take it for a day I can see the losses immediately. Though the effects are not always consistent in terms effectiveness. When I take 1500mg on an empty stomach i notice the effects more, and while taking it on a full stomach i notice less or nothing at all sometimes. I also notice less benefits if I take less than 1500mg. I'm thinking of increase the dosage to 2+ but I'm not sure of the long term side effects especially since reading somewhere about risks of diabetes.

Here's a study that claims that, unlike regular glucosamine, N-A-G doesn't affect blood sugar at moderate doses:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5377572/

"GlcNAc has been used safely in multiple clinical trials; no adverse effects have been observed at >2,000 mg/kg/day of GlcNAc, based on previous chronic toxicity and carcinogenicity studies (30). In the present study, no serious adverse events after oral administration of GlcNAc were exhibited. In contrast, administration of glucosamine hydrochloride or sulfate may induce insulin resistance and progression of diabetes, since glucosamine has the potential to inhibit glucokinase in glucose metabolism. GlcNAc has a lower affinity for glucokinase when compared with glucosamine and therefore does not notably affect glucose metabolism (31). Furthermore, a previous study has demonstrated that 12-week administration of GlcNAc (1,250 mg/day) does not affect the levels of blood glucose, glycoalbumin and haemoglobin A1c (15). In the present study, blood glucose levels were not significantly changed in the GlcNAc groups (500 and 1,000 mg/day). Thus, this suggests that GlcNAc may be safe to administer as a supplement."
 

godlovesatrier

Senior Member
Messages
2,545
Location
United Kingdom
It also has this effect on me too but only when I am stressed or severely stressed I think. I've read that it is useful for autoimmunity and I am wondering if when stressed and with ME autoimmunity gets switched on.
 

Blazer95

Senior Member
Messages
141
Turmeric that @Hip suggests may or may not help you (and actually bring a negative result) according to my research as it may impair the function of certain CYPs in the Liver

I recently found Out that Citalopram (an SSRI that has shown inhibitory effect on IL2 and IL4) and Curcumin stabilize me.

I am Not as knowledgable but i only knew Curcumin works on IL-6 but appartently that is Not correct?

NAG seems to make me a Bit worse however wich doesn't seem to make Sense, or does it?
 

godlovesatrier

Senior Member
Messages
2,545
Location
United Kingdom
Citalopram increase cortisol a lot, just an fyi in case it's related to that. It's also slightly antiviral against a few viruses, only recently found this out, but not as potent as fluxatine - sorry can't spell it!

NAG - its supposed to help lyme spirochetes replicate, it might maybe give certain bacteria a food source too. you could also be just reacting to the shellfish source at high doses as this NAG product is made from it and is at high doses.