Methyl folate severe crash

[caledonia]

@caledonia, @Learner1, @Eastman , @dannybex , @PinkPanda ,

Is the GI Effects better than the CDSA 2.0? Dysbiosis is definitely a big issue for me here.

This has settled down to my norm of constipation, dry skin and toxic taste in my mouth. I'm concerned the sweeteners are feeding the SIBO. Although what stools I'm having, which is something every morning at least, is sinking.

I've added P5P at 25mg X 3 a day and my sleep is better than ever, but I've read it can block detox if CBS is overexpressing(?) as in mercury toxicity. I can also now take much more betaine HCL, but I'm not sure if it's working as well(?) Bizarre situation this. I passed undigested carrots and my skin was turning orange a la malabsorption.

Can anyone of you recommend a good GI doctor online/Skype?

Awaiting my 23andme pack, NutrEval and doctors data hair analysis is away today.

The NutrEval has a digestive/dysbiosis section. Although it's more general than GI Effects or CDSA.

You could try looking at their sample tests and see if either one looks better for your situation. Otherwise, CDSA is probably fine to start with.

You can try finding a functional medicine doc versed in the 4R Gut Rebuilding Program (which was put out by the Institution For Functional Medicine). https://www.ifm.org/find-a-practitioner/

 

[PinkPanda]

Concerning the vitamin b6, I don't tolerate it well. It seems important in a lot of processes but it always increased my stress levels. It is a cofactor for producing dopamine, which is converted to norepinephrine and epinephrine. Don't know if B6 might create problems like that.
High GABA is always said to be good, because it has calming effects and can compensate glutamate, so following that logic GABA wouldn't be a problem. Don't know if it could cause problems with vision, though. Maybe lowering the dose might be helpful.

Are you taking magnesium? I remembered that that is supposed to help gut function, too...

 

[Tuskentank]

Concerning the vitamin b6, I don't tolerate it well. It seems important in a lot of processes but it always increased my stress levels. It is a cofactor for producing dopamine, which is converted to norepinephrine and epinephrine. Don't know if B6 might create problems like that.
High GABA is always said to be good, because it has calming effects and can compensate glutamate, so following that logic GABA wouldn't be a problem. Don't know if it could cause problems with vision, though. Maybe lowering the dose might be helpful.

Are you taking magnesium? I remembered that that is supposed to help gut function, too...

Hi PinkPanda,

Yeah I take Magnesium at night and some in the morning. Helps me sleep along with glycine and zinc carnosine. I had this cloudy vision years ago on ZMA, which is why I thought it was GABA related. I cut back today on my doses of it, and it wasn't as bad. It made me a little bit depressed too at first(?) But then it clears into a slight positive haze.

I think I'm still experiencing receptor sensitivity, as I was affected like this during psych drug withdrawal, everything magnified. Thanks again for your info on this, and @caledonia , thank you too. 23andme is away today so I'll be closer to understanding this. Illness is a terrible thing, but it motivates us to find a cure. I hope to be able to help too, when I'm better clued in to this. I can't say it enough thank you and God grant you healing, you kind people.

 

[PatJ]

High GABA is always said to be good, because it has calming effects and can compensate glutamate, so following that logic GABA wouldn't be a problem.

I tried a GABA supplement for sleep but found that it made me very irritable. Beware of things that are 'always said to be good,' especially when it comes to the strange reactions sometimes experienced by people with CFS/ME.

 

[Tuskentank]

@caledonia , have you ever done the hair mineral analysis test for Doctors Data? I'm low on a few things (attached), and magnesium being low is beyond weird because I spent with it in more than twice RDA. Zinc shouldn't be low either. Strange results?

 

[caledonia]

@caledonia , have you ever done the hair mineral analysis test for Doctors Data? I'm low on a few things (attached), and magnesium being low is beyond weird because I spent with it in more than twice RDA. Zinc shouldn't be low either. Strange results?

That would be good to interpret with Cutler's Counting Rules.

The minerals may or may not be accurate if mercury is present. I can't remember off the top of my head.

If the minerals are accurate, mag and zinc are two that mercury will mess up. Those two are part of Cutler's Core Four supplements.

Sorry I can't be more detailed right now.

 

[Tuskentank]

That would be good to interpret with Cutler's Counting Rules.

The minerals may or may not be accurate if mercury is present. I can't remember off the top of my head.

If the minerals are accurate, mag and zinc are two that mercury will mess up. Those two are part of Cutler's Core Four supplements.

Sorry I can't be more detailed right now.

No that's great, Caledonia, it definitely feels like something is amiss with both zinc and magnesium, and I know there's mercury in my brain from the ALA dose, so the "all low" toxic result is strange as well.

 

[Thinktank]

Not to mention I'm in the middle of a what's turned into 9 year taper off Zoloft.

9 years... Why such a long taper? How are you doing now?

I was prescribed sertraline (zoloft) not so long ago for my GAD and panic attacks because i really don't want to become dependent on benzo's again.
Unfortunately, 25mg makes me kinda hypomanic! Maybe i should try a lower dose?
I also tried low dose paroxetine (paxil) which knocked me out of my shoes, my mind was drifting somewhere in another world and my anxiety was uncontrollable the next day.
Escitalopram (lexapro) also made me super anxious.

It's all poison, really.

 

[nanonug]

Escitalopram (lexapro) also made me super anxious.

Maybe SSRIs are not what you need? Maybe what you need is a DNRI such as Wellbutrin? In any case, additional anxiety is a common side effect when starting a SSRI and usually lasts between 2-4 weeks.

 

[PinkPanda]

Have you ever tried supplements for your anxiety?
I have some good experience with hydroxoB12, 5-HTP and choline bitartrate. I heard from someone who was on SSRI's that they then needed choline and it was helpful for some symptoms like sensory overload. I had the feeling choline can lower serotonin though.

You can't take 5-HTP while on SSRI's, that causes serotonin syndrome, which is really dangerous. Maybe a doctor can advise you on how to deal with that. Or maybe you know about it already..

In general calming neurotransmitters are acetylcholine, serotonin (,GABA). Raising the levels of these neurotransmitters might be helpful. High adrenaline and norepinephrine might rather induce anxiety.

I agree that, if it is somehow possible, it would be better to be off psychotropic medications, many of them can impact mitochondrial function.

 

[Thinktank]

Maybe SSRIs are not what you need? Maybe what you need is a DNRI such as Wellbutrin? In any case, additional anxiety is a common side effect when starting a SSRI and usually lasts between 2-4 weeks.

Maybe not, i've tried wellbutrin at a rather high dosage, 300mg and it increased my anxiety. It's very stimulating.
I have been thinking about trying it again, i have wellbutrin XL 150mg on hand.

Have you ever tried supplements for your anxiety?
I have some good experience with hydroxoB12, 5-HTP and choline bitartrate. I heard from someone who was on SSRI's that they then needed choline and it was helpful for some symptoms like sensory overload. I had the feeling choline can lower serotonin though.

You can't take 5-HTP while on SSRI's, that causes serotonin syndrome, which is really dangerous. Maybe a doctor can advise you on how to deal with that. Or maybe you know about it already..

In general calming neurotransmitters are acetylcholine, serotonin (,GABA). Raising the levels of these neurotransmitters might be helpful. High adrenaline and norepinephrine might rather induce anxiety.

I agree that, if it is somehow possible, it would be better to be off psychotropic medications, many of them can impact mitochondrial function.

I've tried a thousand supplements and found some that do work for mild anxiety, but supplements don't touch the severe episodes or panic attacks.
Some that have a mild effect are magnesium malate, NAG, flaxseed oil and ofcourse gabaergic compounds like passion flower, chamomile etc.

Acetylcholine is very stimulating for me.
I'm still enduring benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms after being clean for 2 years.
My ANS/CNS is always wired, overstimulated. Restless 24/7.

My problem probably has more to do with desensitized GABA-A receptors, increased NMDA receptors and glutamate, and increased (nor)epinephrine.
I also suspect MCAS and the histaminergic system having a part in all of this.

Maybe i could try a TCA like amitriptyline? If i could just keep the GAD and panic attacks under control, life would be so much easier.

 

[caledonia]

9 years... Why such a long taper? How are you doing now?

I was prescribed sertraline (zoloft) not so long ago for my GAD and panic attacks because i really don't want to become dependent on benzo's again.
Unfortunately, 25mg makes me kinda hypomanic! Maybe i should try a lower dose?
I also tried low dose paroxetine (paxil) which knocked me out of my shoes, my mind was drifting somewhere in another world and my anxiety was uncontrollable the next day.
Escitalopram (lexapro) also made me super anxious.

It's all poison, really.

It was such a long taper because of the high dose that Zoloft has. I started with 150mg, then tapered 10% of the previous dose, so each dose gets smaller and smaller at a slower and slower rate.

But anyway - I crashed at about 7mg and had to reinstate the Zoloft. I'm back up to 100mg and doing well now, but it was a long scary 4 or 5 months of digging out.

There is now a genetic test to help you figure out which psych drugs will work best for you before you try them. The trial and error process isn't much fun as you're finding out. The one that's available in my area is called GeneSightRx. I don't know if there are other ones, or if so, which ones are the best.

 

[Thinktank]

Sorry to hear about your struggle to get off zoloft. If it feels like benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome then i know what you're talking about, it's hell.

I will look them up, it would come in really handy if i know which medication suits me best before going through the trial and error process.

 

[nanonug]

Maybe not, i've tried wellbutrin at a rather high dosage, 300mg and it increased my anxiety. It's very stimulating.
I have been thinking about trying it again, i have wellbutrin XL 150mg on hand.

My psychiatrist always starts any psychotropic at the lowest dosage available and doesn't increase unless 30 days have passed at the very least. I'd say going for 150mg first is a very smart idea.

 

[Thinktank]

My psychiatrist always starts any psychotropic at the lowest dosage available and doesn't increase unless 30 days have passed at the very least. I'd say going for 150mg first is a very smart idea.

My psychiatrist is not the brightest.

I took 150mg wellbutrin XL this morning, at first it caused some restlesness but after a few hours that changed into a mellow feeling, not much motivation, a little bit more brain fog.

I'm particularly interested in wellbutrin as a nonstandard anti-TNF therapy for Crohn's disease. So if it can lower my anxiety and reduce the inflammation in my intestines then that's two birds with one stone.

 

[Thinktank]

My first day on wellbutrin XL 150mg has been interesting.

T+1 after dosing i started to feel a bit overstimulated, restless like a spike in adrenalin.
T+2 I started to feel really good, anxiety gone! It's hard to describe, the feeling i had was that of post-ejaculation (after a dopamine spike), mellowed out and no motivation to do anything. This feeling lasted for 5 to 6 hours or so.
T+7, i started to feel restless again, ruminating and racing thoughts.
T+9, Dinner, i was all in my head.
T+11, took some magnesium to calm down, that worked.

Woke up this morning feeling ok after a good nights sleep.

 

[junkcrap50]

When I had PFD symptoms I took more folate. I kept this up multiple times per day, over the course of a week or so, until the symptoms finally went away.

@PatJ, How much folate did you take each time or total per day? Were your symptoms very similar to Fredd's symptom list of paradoxial folate deficiency, so that you were sure it was PFD?

I know it's been a long time since your post, but hoping you might still remember. I've had chronic muscle aches, pains, burning, and tightness ever since doing Fredd protocol. Thinking of retrying high dose folate, as at the time taking a ton of folate did help ease, but not eliminate symptoms.