My Situation: Please Help

[Eastman]

In case this is of interest:

Recovery from Schizophrenia with Bioactive Substances in Hericium erinaceum

 

[Methyl90]

I'm taking Throne Metyl Plus and today is the third day with a capsule.

Did you know that this morning I was really bad but after hiring it within an hour I was definitely better. Maybe a capsule is still little for me?

 

[Methyl90]

I hope to get some help because I'm spending really hellish weeks especially because the symptoms of schizophrenia have worsened.

I do not know what to do anymore because in Italy I do not have a support from anyone who deals with methylation.

If any doctor reads and wants to help me, I'm happy to pay for it.

I can not always disturb Fred in private who was already very kind to me.

On 9 October I started methylfolate with a dosage of 400mcg.

After a week of excellent sensation I rose to 800mcg adding the vitamin B12 in sublingual methylated form at 1000mcg.

For an abundant month I was very well without any negative symptoms.

Attaulmente I was around 1400mcg of methylfolate and 2500-3000 of B12.

The last two weeks I think I've taken too much B12 without adequate folate as Fred describes in the symptoms of re-feeding.

After Thorne Methyl Guard Plus a tablet I also suffered a sharp drop in body temperature with chills and a decreased heartbeat. It is strange because it is specially made to lower the homocysteine.

I leave with a level of homocysteine at 15.

I think I have blocked the methylation cycle 3 times.

The symptoms of schizophrenia instead of diminishing are going up especially at night with the songs on their heads, voices and faces. In addition I have more anhedonia and depression, loss of issues and desire to do.

Where am I doing wrong ? how can I start again? in the last two days I did not take B12 but only methylfolate without positive effects. I have strong edema in the face and falling cheeks (surely all signs that I am not producing glutathione). and perhaps, a few folate.

I continually need a reward, in my case of food.

I hope to receive your help, I need guys are in pieces.

@Eastman @taniaaust1

 

[Eastman]

@Methyl90

It is my suspicion that high-dose methylation supplements induce B1 and/or lithium deficiency. Maybe B3 deficiency too. Any of these could cause metabolic and psychiatric symptoms, although not specifically schizophrenia.

I had written about these here and here.

 

[taniaaust1]

I hope to receive your help, I need guys are in pieces.

@Eastman @taniaaust1

Hi there, sorry I do not have any more advice I can give to you.

I did notice that someone else has asked you if you could be on the Autism spectrum (Aspergers) .. and with the way you post,the unusual depth of things ... I'm actually wondering that too. (Many of us do give detailed descriptions on drugs and dosages we may be trialing etc but your posts are going far beyond this).

 

[andy_smurt]

Around the age of 14 I begin to feel a strong discomfort in being observed while I play football...During the game I no longer understood anything, physical and verbally blocked. I avoided eye contact with others.
I brought all these inconveniences including fear, paranoia, anticipatory anxiety even in everyday life ... social anxiety and doing things in front of others for me was impossible ... even the slightest things.

Surely my ability to think and to think again is not fast in the presence of strangers ... at home all in all I'm pretty well ... I still can not pay attention when others speak for example if I have 3 people talking to me in front of me it is difficult to make the "switch" with the thought and the gaze towards that person.

"Gaze aversion in autistic and normal children." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/944993
"Visual images often intrude on verbal thinking" https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-05-visual-images-intrude-pondering-hardwired.html
"Selective Mutism?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_mutism
If this response is not rooted in trauma, and you were not this way before, I'm thinking envoronmental (chemical exposure, e.g. mercury,lead) cause is far more likely than genetic.
It doesn't take much mercury exposure during adolescence to cause lasting impairment.

I recall an interesting article on tracing lead contaminated human food, turned out farmers in Spain/France (I don't recall) were routinely target shooting over crops, and the lead from lead bullets got into human food that way.

I believe I did see an article on a supplement helping gaze aversion, but I can't remember what it was or where I'd have written it down. I think it had to do with focus? A stimulant like amphetamine/ritalin? Thiamine? I don't remember.

A hypothesis I have on gaze aversion is that an individual has difficulty focusing, he eliminates distractions as he lacks the capability of simultaneously handling them (along the lines of the "visual images intrude on verbal thinking" article). You wrote "I was born as a hyperactive child in fact I was never standing still." did any stimulant nootropic help you focus better?

Since I was a child I have always had a great difficulty in coordinating thought, language, eye movement and movement when I find myself in difficulty or in situations that I have not calculated and new.

It is not automatic but I have to think and calculate in advance.

There is no naturalness in things and emotions.

Yes I am this way as well since age 14 after forcefed antipsychotics.

I'm reading you as driven to find solutions to the impairments you see, you were not impaired in these ways prior to age 14? Prior to this football game did you have difficulty coordinating thought, etc?

I begin to take SSRIs in even high enough doses for months without apparent success.

"Researchers identify three sub-types of depression" https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-10-sub-types-depression.html
That you had no childhood trauma and were non-responsive indicates to me again environmental cause.

I change different psychiatrists and I start other therapies based on drugs like SNRI and anti-psychotics that have led me to great side effects including a serotoninergic crisis.

I had lost facial expressiveness totally." & anhedonia

I expect these symptoms are persistent antipsychotic side effects, I experience them as well. My muscles went rigid and less responsive as well (e.g. jaw constantly clenching), I lost significant ability playing sport (no longer able to move muscles fluidly).
"Reduced affect display" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduced_affect_display

Hopefully Italy with its foresight to protect "genetic data" (23andme), also protects their children from drug harm within clinical practices:
"The Psychiatric Diagnosing and Drugging of Our Children" https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-peter-breggin/the-new-child-abuse-psych_b_788900.html

That you were never diagnosed with schizophrenia, having no auditory/visual hallucinations that substantially harmed/interfered with your life, and were prescribed antipsychotics says to me the possible benefit never exceeded the probable harm. Irresponsible of those practitioners to do that to you. That your parents sought out psychiatrists (specifically drugs) suggests to me they lack the skills to navigate the situation.

Let's say we can summarize with "paranoid schizophrenia" even if I have never been officially diagnosed

I suggest not to self classify, it is not helpful. Leave that to a professional who has seen and evaluated hundreds to thousands of people. And even they "cross evaluating" patients come to all sorts of different conclusions.

Only in this last month I come to know the cycle of methylation and all that is related. Having no specialist in Italy that follows this thing

Oh, you wrote of trimethylglycine, give that a shot, it helps my mental focus substantially (negates chronic inflammation & allergy from titanium/nickel implant, so I guess may not help you, IDK).
I've also seen two others say huperzine-A helped undo the lasting cognition damage antipsychotics did to them (long after discontinuation).
Aside from those you've got layers of stuff going on (adhd? age 14 environmental toxin? antipsychotic damage?). So personally I don't think methylation model will help with any of those layers, but sure try things yourself and see if something does help you.

Keep a journal, so you can remember what you tried. Write a presentation of your life in chronological order so your practitioner can make sense of things.

Try to find a different practitioner in Italy, I suggest a psychologist for grounding, and he can refer you to others from there if appropriate. I expect they can appraise your situation, and give you healthy models/treatments to maximize your life satisfaction. If they can't help you, find someone else.

I am unfamiliar with health care in Italy, but was moved by your drive to remove these barriers you did not have before (like me), so I chose to write a response.

 

[Eastman]

@Methyl90

The autism link is interesting.

If you had followed through the link from one of my earlier posts, you would have reached this article:

Are High Folate and Vitamin B12 Linked to Low Thiamine in Autism and Other Disorders?

That article was written by Dr Derrick Lonsdale, who did this study:

Treatment of autism spectrum children with thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide: a pilot study.

Dr Lonsdale was also a co-author of this paper:

The role of trace elements, thiamin(e) in autism and autistic spectrum disorder

 

[Methyl90]

Thank you very much for the answers and the links you have put.

I will try when I can concentrate to read them.

I can tell you that it's been 5 days since I stopped with methylfolate and vitamin B12. I'm just taking vitamin C.

I had a lot of dental caries and interventions during my childhood. I never liked doing things when I was young and the episodes of binge eating are the same as now, as well as the need to get a reward.

I'm accusing heavy side effects.

I exchanged the day with the night because of an out-of-control histamine. I hear the voices and songs in my head. The heartbeat in the head. Appetite control is not present but certainly also due to low dopamine and other neurotransmitters.

I can tell you that eliminating foods that are rich in histamine or that somehow release it bring me some benefit.

I would like to try an antihistamine to understand what happens.

Before trying the methylfolate and B12 I was not bad but still always little pleasure in life and doing things with others (or in any case doing it in front of others). Social dinners ... relatives ... always little empathy. When others celebrate, I do not feel the feelings and bother the touches on my body, even the family.

If the theory that a undermethylator does not need folates and B12, should I concentrate on SAM-e?

I had great benefits when I did not masturbate, I think because I was holding nutrients and histamine.

At this moment the methylation is really slow and I am very frustrated because I do not know who to compare with what I have to do. I ordered the SAM-e.

@andy_smurt @Eastman

 

[Methyl90]

Actually I think the symptoms of schizophrenia at this time are caused by the mess that I did with methyl and B12 .... while with regard to autism have never changed. When I was healthy during the fasting, this had disappeared and surely there was a big shock in the methylation and glutathione production cycle.

When i take NAC i have several side of release of histamine. Same with Whey protein and ricotta....i think this point i not produce reguar glutathione.

 

[Methyl90]

I realize only now that it has been almost a year since my last message ... in the meantime I have had both highs and lows but the basic "cause" has not been resolved.

My homocysteine has gone from 14.7 to 11.7 while B12 remains slightly above the reference range of the laboratory.

I tried to use Lithium but I had big side effects by increasing my already high paranoia, mental confusion and depersonalization ... I think it jeopardizes the transport somewhere in my body (besides decreasing the NMDA activity that I probably already have low seen my symptoms). It took me 3-4 hours to recover ... I have no idea if it triggers a "trap" but surely something gets stuck.

I have not had the opportunity to perform a methylation test but only in recent weeks I am noticing a great benefit from "SARCOSIN". It has almost completely reduced my "schizophrenic" symptoms ...

I therefore suspect that there may be a real defect in the "BHMT" gene.

What are the guidelines and support I can give to this gene?

For months I have not taken any form of B12 and folate as both create me a "block" ... probably if the defect was in BHMT I could reinsert them?

Anyone who wants to help me ... Thanks!

 

[percyval577]

@Methyl90 I havn´t read the thread, but B12 is important in epigentics,

beside this methylation there is an acetylation. You may try a drop of vinegar in 0.3l water. (!)

 

[Methyl90]

@Methyl90 I havn´t read the thread, but B12 is important in epigentics,

beside this methylation there is an acetylation. You may try a drop of vinegar in 0.3l water. (!)

What do you mean by acetylation? I also forgot B3 in small doses helps me

 

[Methyl90]

@percyval577 If you have the chance to tell me something about BHMT I'd like to ... or read the thread.

 

[Learner1]

Serum B12 is not a good test. Methylmalonic acid is the "gold standard".

Could you get an amino acid panel run? How are your potassium and magnesium levels?

Do you know what your other methylation SNPs are?

Besides MB12 and 5-MTHF, you may also need B6. Or B2.

 

[percyval577]

@Methyl90 you know, I read a bit science, try to apply it to my health,
and if it works I hold on to such hypothesis until I need to rethink it.

So, I don´t know much about epigenetics. There is a methylation and an acetylation (wikipedia),
both are involved in the regulation of gene transcription.

The methylation can even passed on from parents to children, in some parameters.

So one of my hypothesis is, that in my brain the genes are not read favourable,
so B12 helps a bit, and acetate helps even more (I only guess that acetate would be needed there).
Interestingly, both molecules diminish nitric oxide.

So, maybe methylation is more a regulator on the longer run,
and acetylation more on the shorter run?

So I thought, if you have some fortune or misfortune with B12, the other "-ation" might be a help.

 

[Methyl90]

@percyval577 @Learner1 How is it that after taking 400mg of Vitamin E after about an hour my symptoms have dropped considerably? What is its role in the electron and energy transport chain? it was great! but I don't understand how it works but above all in my case WHERE.

 

[JES]

@percyval577 @Learner1 How is it that after taking 400mg of Vitamin E after about an hour my symptoms have dropped considerably? What is its role in the electron and energy transport chain? it was great! but I don't understand how it works but above all in my case WHERE.

Many supplements provide temporary improvement for people with ME/CFS, but then mysteriously stop working. Vitamin E is a strong antioxidant, so the antioxidant effect is probably the most likely reason why you improved on it. Have you checked the long thread on anti-anxiety supplements here? Antioxidants and anti-inflammatory supplements can provide benefits if your symptoms are related to neuroinflammation and oxidative stress, which is higher than normal in most people with ME/CFS.

I'm not surprised that sarcosine helped you, I have read great things about it for many mental health problems (unfortunately it's poorly available here in Europe). However, there is no reason to think it has anything to do with the BHMT gene. I tried plenty of methylation treatments about five years ago when they were much hyped here on PR. Most of them increased my baseline anxiety and did not help my brain fog, neurological or other symptoms.

My advice is you should stop reading too much into methylation and especially the theories of Yasko. You cannot infer diseases from SNPs, it's simply bogus and not supported by evidence. For example regarding MTHFR, something like 40% of the whole population on earth walks around with at least heterozygous MTHFR mutations.

 

[Methyl90]

Many supplements provide temporary improvement for people with ME/CFS, but then mysteriously stop working. Vitamin E is a strong antioxidant, so the antioxidant effect is probably the most likely reason why you improved on it. Have you checked the long thread on anti-anxiety supplements here? Antioxidants and anti-inflammatory supplements can provide benefits if your symptoms are related to neuroinflammation and oxidative stress, which is higher than normal in most people with ME/CFS.

I'm not surprised that sarcosine helped you, I have read great things about it for many mental health problems (unfortunately it's poorly available here in Europe). However, there is no reason to think it has anything to do with the BHMT gene. I tried plenty of methylation treatments about five years ago when they were much hyped here on PR. Most of them increased my baseline anxiety and did not help my brain fog, neurological or other symptoms.

My advice is you should stop reading too much into methylation and especially the theories of Yasko. You cannot infer diseases from SNPs, it's simply bogus and not supported by evidence. For example regarding MTHFR, something like 40% of the whole population on earth walks around with at least heterozygous MTHFR mutations.

Or does it simply have an impact on the astrocytes that are involved in schizophrenia? I think I have something about NMDA receptors

 

[Eastman]

...in recent weeks I am noticing a great benefit from "SARCOSIN". It has almost completely reduced my "schizophrenic" symptoms ...

Congratulations on finding something to help with your schizophrenia.

... However, there is no reason to think it has anything to do with the BHMT gene...

Indeed.

Or does it simply have an impact on the astrocytes that are involved in schizophrenia? I think I have something about NMDA receptors

According to this article, sarcosine helps with schizophrenia possibly by increasing the amount of the NMDA agonist, glycine.

Actually I think the symptoms of schizophrenia at this time are caused by the mess that I did with methyl and B12 ....

Increased methylation could cause glycine to become methylated and thus depleted.