Is there a difference between relapses/flare-ups and crashes

[CreativeB]

HI. I'm still trying to get my head around anything and I'm getting confused. Is there a difference between crashes and relapses? Thanks in advance for any help/insight.

 

[Shoshana]

My thought is yes, that a crash is sudden and severe, but generally shorter duration.

Whereas, a relapse is much longer duration, such as weeks or months.

To confuse matters
I will add that sometimes perhaps a crash will lead to a relapse, though not always or not even usually.
We can hope to recover from a crash sooner.
As awful as it is, to be in one.

Relapses .... just last longer, in my opinion, and sometimes less acute in nature.
One might have more frequent crashes during a relapse,
but not as much related, is my guess.


I hope this clears things up a bit! Any bit???
Well, I tried... to answer the question.

 

[CreativeB]

Thanks. That is helpful. I guess I'm having a horrible crash

 

[ljimbo423]

Is there a difference between crashes and relapses?

I have 2 very different types of "crashes" or "post exertion malaise"= (PEM). One I get 2 days after I physically over do it and it always lasts about 24 hours. The second one I get feels exactly like the flu and would last 4-5 days, usually keeping me in bed for those 4-5 days.

Co-enzyme Q10 at 400 mg a day has completely stopped the flu-like flares that would last 4-5 days!!

Jim

 

[Shoshana]

Thanks. That is helpful. I guess I'm having a horrible crash

Thanks for that feedback, but I AM sorry you are having either one!
I hope it passes by, soon.

DO you take that in divided doses, and with food, @ljimbo423 ?

 

[ljimbo423]

DO you take that in divided doses, and with food

I make sure I take it with food. If I take it anytime after breakfast I sometimes have trouble sleeping. So I take it all at once. From the reading I've done, it is better absorbed when divided up into 2-3 doses over the course of the day.

Jim

 

[Shoshana]

OK, so you do not follow what you read. I understand that!

Whatever works for each of us.

Thanks for the reply, Jim!

 

[Shoshana]

HI. I'm still trying to get my head around anything and I'm getting confused.

We each find overlaps with everyone else, but individual differences as well. Same as people with other illnesses have with their symptoms and patterns.

SO the best thing to do, is to watch carefully what happens for you, and try to find ways to prevent the worse crashes and especially setbacks and relapses of unknown and generally longer time lengths.

ANd do not be surprised.... if, as soon as you "get your head around something" ....it might shift and change to something different.

 

[CreativeB]

Thank you both, Jim and Shoshana. I've been struggling through what feels like the worst crash ever since Saturday but I've been able to rest more today.

 

[ljimbo423]

Thank you both, Jim and Shoshana. I've been struggling through what feels like the worst crash ever since Saturday but I've been able to rest more today.

I had a flare yesterday, luckily it only lasted a day. I am doing really good but that flare put me in a mental tailspin for that day. Hope you feel better soon! Take good care of yourself.

Jim

 

[Shoshana]

I've been struggling through what feels like the worst crash ever since Saturday but I've been able to rest more today.

I am sorry you have been struggling worse than usual, Starlight.

Extra rest is often needed, and usually helps, even though it is not an instant or total solution.
Also, remember to drink water and liquids and have nutritious snacks. Definitely avoid overdoing in any way, until the crash subsides, for more than 24 hours, is just a guess.
When you do feel a bit better, take it extremely gradual. Do not try to "make up for lost time" and do not overdo, as soon as you improve, which is tempting, but not worth the aftermath.

Just sharing ideas, not intending to sound "bossy"

 

[CreativeB]

Not bossy at all Shoshana. I'm currently still working so that's probably not helping. I am trying to plan out activities so I'm not pushing too hard at work. But it will be a weekend at home.

 

[BadBadBear]

To me, a crash is flat out running out of energy. No more, kaput, I'm dead, I crashed, I bonked. Could last an hour, a day, a week...

A flare, to me, is a flare up of my viral symptoms. Getting a sore throat, muscle aches, fever, etc.

A relapse, to me, can start with a flare or a crash but is a decline in functionality that is longer lasting, weeks, months, years.

 

[Sushi]

Is there a difference between crashes and relapses?

In my experience, yes--a big difference. I had a relapse after a few years of a remission. So that means that a relapse is a return to a previous illness level. For me, a crash is short-termed and happens after over-exertion.

 

[Raven Mom]

To me, a crash is flat out running out of energy. No more, kaput, I'm dead, I crashed, I bonked. Could last an hour, a day, a week...

A flare, to me, is a flare up of my viral symptoms. Getting a sore throat, muscle aches, fever, etc.

A relapse, to me, can start with a flare or a crash but is a decline in functionality that is longer lasting, weeks, months, years.

@BadBadBear has nearly explained my experience, too. The flare up is like a warning sign to bring the power-resting, extra garlic, high-vitamin, oregano-oil, pre-made casseroles from the freezer for the next few meals into action, postponing nearly any activity other than self-care to avoid a crash.

The crash worsens all the flare-up symptoms but adds the head-ache in extremis. I'll sleep for huge swaths of the day as well as full nights in a crash period (wishing to be granted the relief of sleep the few waking hours). As with the flare-up warning of an impending crash, a crash warns of an impending set-back of a more significant nature- calling it a relapse is sensible.

It's like trying to stem a heavy snowfall from becoming an avalanche or the avalanche from becoming an ice age. A cascade of steps that is best stopped because so exponentially worse each time.

 

[CreativeB]

I think I now have a better, clearer understanding. I need to be careful and rest - look after myself to avoid making things worse. It won't be a relapse as I guess that's what this already is, but now I'm here, I'm also having a flare up.

I first had CFS about 25 years ago but went into remission after about 4 or 5 years. But I think I've been in denial for about the past 5 years struggling with the all too familiar symptoms.

I guess I didn't want to admit to myself that the CFS had returned. But now that I have, I want to find out all that I can and manage the condition to the best of my ability.

I also think Phoenix Rising is great ... I've already learned a lot and can see this is a very supportive network

 

[Seven7]

Crash is temporary, you go back to your base energy level ( unique to you).
Relalpse is when the crash or a sudden reason sent you to a lower energy baseline.
So let’s say you could do 2,000 steps a day, then you crash, you will only be able to do 1,000 and have like symptoms flare up but in two weeks or a short time you go back to 2,000 and your normal symptoms, then is a crash.
If you stay at 1,000 steps for months or years is a relapse.
I call a flare up same as crash ( but when I use flare up is more to do with symptoms than energy). So if somebody is sick around me, I feel like fluish but energy stays same. I call it a flare ( intensification of symptoms by external influence). But flare up is just me that call it that. Not sure how others use it

 

[Raven Mom]

Beyond the fundamental CFS/ME divergence, there are certainly a lot of loosely defined terms. Wondering if it's not just the lack of clear diagnostic tests or uniformity of symptom presentation contributing to those of us with the illness appearing under a pall of vague & wishy-washy to the public....

In the last few days here, I've been newly introduced to @Sundancer's compelling preference of PENE over PEM ( in case you missed that thread, Sundancers wrote, 'PENE is another way to say PEM, means Post Exertional Neuro-immune Exhaustion. I prefer the term over PEM (Post Exertional Malaise) because it grasps better what happens to the body.'), and now such core experiences/symptoms as crashes are spoken of by us all with different meanings.

I, too, am learning so much here and feeling so heartened by everyone's fierce, fighting spirits (not least the strength to admit utter hopelessness and vulnerability some have ) but beginning to perceive, as well, how we're still grappling with basic terminology. I recall reading that each individual suffering from ME presented with their own 'constellation' of symptoms & the wrongness of that term struck me: nothing beautiful in the multi-system nature of it & the word sounds so graceful. But then again, this poet out of Toronto compiled all the lists of United Nations military operations and they read beautifully in their horror with names like Oceanside, Sea Sweep, Goodwood. We live in strange times. I do wish we had more clarity, though. Maybe @Starlight and @Sundancer's searches for clarification aren't the only ones, I'm new here. You've all helped me this last 14 days or so, already...more able to believe we'll all agree on what the phrase 'Effective Treatment' means sooner rather than later. All this collected energy will be a force, you've reassured me.

 

[jesse's mom]

In the last few days here, I've been newly introduced to @Sundancer's compelling preference of PENE over PEM ( in case you missed that thread, Sundancers wrote, 'PENE is another way to say PEM, means Post Exertional Neuro-immune Exhaustion. I prefer the term over PEM (Post Exertional Malaise) because it grasps better what happens to the body.'), and now such core experiences/symptoms as crashes are spoken of by ius all with different meanings.

I missed all this somehow I agree that PENE really explains what happens with me when I overdo.
The muscle twitches, the inner trembling, the inability to grasp the word I want to use. My speech will come out all jumbled at that time. My body pain is increased. The IBS returns... All the setbacks.

I do think I am generally more resilient and bounce back faster taking BCAAs.

 

[Seadragon]

To me, a crash is flat out running out of energy. No more, kaput, I'm dead, I crashed, I bonked. Could last an hour, a day, a week...

A flare, to me, is a flare up of my viral symptoms. Getting a sore throat, muscle aches, fever, etc.

A relapse, to me, can start with a flare or a crash but is a decline in functionality that is longer lasting, weeks, months, years.

This for me too.