What are good adjunctive therapies to protect against the adverse effects of antibiotics?

[Jesse2233]

I'm likely starting cocktail of antibiotics for a chronic mycoplasma pneumoniae infection, and I'd like to prevent long term damage to my gut flora. Understanding that there are no perfect precautions, what are good some adjunctive therapies to protect against the worst effects?

Already taking:

- VSL3
- Yeastbiotic
- PrescriptAssist

And doing daily mHBOT

Also will likely add a natural binder

Thanks!

 

[Thinktank]

Mitochondrial support. Many antibiotics also damage mitochondria.

 

[echobravo]

Maybe add olive leaf extract or similar to make it harder for yeast and pathogens to grow in small intestines. Dr Myhill recommends to take high dose (to bowel tolerance) vitamin c at night to keep it acidic, which supposedly a bad climate for those pathogens. Also, don’t feed them - stay low on carbs (sugars, starch..). Bacteria don’t feed on fat, but you do - so I would increase fat for energy. Fermented foods/drinks for high doses of commensal bacteria?

Dr. Mercola has an interesting new probiotic product, Restore Spore, focusing on bacillus species and betaglucans. Here is his recent article with useful info on gut health (in addition to product PR

http://probiotics.mercola.com/spore-probiotics.html

Tryptophanpeptide and omega-3 is also supposed to be good for restoring a functional intestinal flora.

 

[echobravo]

Mitochondrial support.

What would that typically involve?

 

[adelheid55]

Yes @Thinktank I would be interested in this too...

 

[Jesse2233]

Thanks for the feedback

Any thoughts on pre-biotics?

 

[echobravo]

Any thoughts on pre-biotics?

I never concluded regarding FOS, inulin etc - some say they are beneficial, some claim they can feed pathogens (like klebsiella pn).

Dr. Gundry advocates resistant starches to feed your colon commensal bacteria (check his book “Plant Paradox”) - things like green bananas/plantains, cassava, parsnips, glucomannan, tiger nuts, turnips etc. However, I would guess that in the presence of sibo or candida the higher carb content of some of those foods might be worsening things in the small intestines..

 

[Jesse2233]

I never concluded regarding FOS, inulin etc - some say they are beneficial, some claim they can feed pathogens (like klebsiella pn).

Dr. Gundry advocates resistant starches to feed your colon commensal bacteria (check his book “Plant Paradox”) - things like green bananas/plantains, cassava, parsnips, glucomannan, tiger nuts, turnips etc. However, I would guess that in the presence of sibo or candida the higher carb content of some of those foods might be worsening things in the small intestines..

Interesting, what about supplemental fiber?

 

[pattismith]

it would be nice to see what kind of antibiotic you will take and to have a look into mechanicism of their toxicity.

Mitochondrial inhibition/damage is one possible pathway for some (Quinolones, tetracyclines)

And if you take Macrolides for example, they can have inhibition effect on Nitric Oxide Synthase, and this can have good or bad neurological effects, depending on cases.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19811424
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18684233

You also have to consider that taking two antibiotics together can increase the toxicity risk.

 

[Jesse2233]

Thanks @pattismith

I'll be taking clarithromyacin, rifampin, and cefdinir

 

[pattismith]

Thanks @pattismith

I'll be taking clarithromyacin, rifampin, and cefdinir

I tryed clarythro but couldn't cope with the side effect (as my nervous system and mitochondria are already damaged by Azytro + Doxy I took previously).

I've read that B12 can regulate the Nitric Oxyde Synthases, I wish I had knowed this before, maybe it would have protected me:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18836533
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19328848
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18923642

injections of B12 and B1 now help me to deal with the damages, but I can't tell which one is the most helpful.

 

[Jesse2233]

I tryed clarythro but couldn't cope with the side effect (as my nervous system and mitochondria are already damaged by Azytro + Doxy I took previously).

I've read that B12 can regulate the Nitric Oxyde Synthases, I wish I had knowed this before, maybe it would have protected me:


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18836533
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19328848
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18923642

injections of B12 and B1 now help me to deal with the damages, but I can't tell which one is the most helpful.

Good to know!

I'm doing b12 injections every other day and getting an IV that includes b1 weekly, so hopefully that will give me some cover

 

[echobravo]

what about supplemental fiber?

There are many types of fiber, and I know Dr Mercola recommends psyllium husk. However, my gastro professor claims that the “volume increasing” cellulose fibers are of little benefit. He says to take “oat hull fiber”, which is supposed to be particularly rich in lignin. The polyphenols in lignin facilitates electron transport across the intestinal barrier (don’t ask details, my source - the gastro professor - says it has to do with “redox”..)

Edit: oat fiber also contains Beta-glucans, a prebiotic non-digestible oligosaccharide that feeds your good bacteria. It has other health benefits too, e.g. wrt binding bile and thereby lowering bad cholesterol.

Edit 2. Definition: the ingredient “oat hull fiber” or “oat fiber” is a primarily insoluble fiber derived from oat hulls, the outermost part of the oat kernel that surrounds the oat groat.

Dr. Mercola on the benefits of polyfenols, lignan included.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/10/09/polyphenols-health-benefits.aspx

 

[anniekim]

Good reports on symprove http://www.symprove.com/bioscience/evidence/ucl-study?hcp=1

 

[Gingergrrl]

I'll be taking clarithromyacin, rifampin, and cefdinir

Jesse, have you now decided this for sure?

 

[Jesse2233]

Jesse, have you now decided this for sure?

Pretty close, though I have to admit I'm nervous about it

 

[Gingergrrl]

Pretty close, though I have to admit I'm nervous about it

I don't blame you and I would be nervous, too, but I am not a big fan of antibiotics based on my own past experience! When do you have to decide?

 

[anni66]

Pretty close, though I have to admit I'm nervous about it

Hi @Jesse2233, i have similar concerns. My daughter (16) has been making little progress with supplementation and has subsequently tested positive for H Pylori. She is mostly in bed and i have concerns re her ability to cope with the treatment regime. We have had to liaise with chemist re prescription as certain E numbers are a nightmare ( yellow salicylates)- so some concerns re liver function. ATP levels are low,and ADP/ATP conversion poor.
In UK not a lot of knowledge re CFS/ME on general level, and on biochemistry of different mechanisms at GP level- i' m more concerned about the effect of the anti bacterial antibiotic ' s potential to affect mito function .
If we can rid of H.Pylori it should make a huge difference , both for fatigue and brain fog

 

[anni66]

https://www.optibacprobiotics.co.uk/shop/for-every-day-extra-strength
Been recommended this to be used in conjunction with antibiotics

 

[Learner1]

My doctor just recommended this probiotic:

https://www.seekinghealth.com/probiota-12-powder-30-servings