Ive seen you commented that you have tried non-lactic acid producing bacteria . Could i ask which ones?.
The Dr Ohhira's probiotics.
Even lactic acid producing? Please tell more
Sometimes I get it wrong by trying a probiotic that might just have a little of the lactic acid bacteria but lots of Bifido type but it will also upset my gut very quickly.
The other thought (and this to me seems more likely) is that because kefir contains several strains of yeast as well as Lactobacillus bacteria, it could be that the kefir introduced a yeast infection into your gut.
Sometimes I get it wrong by trying a probiotic that might just have a little of the lactic acid bacteria but lots of Bifido type but it will also upset my gut very quickly.
Just a couple of points about the gut microbiome, lactate and probiotics that maybe helpful in this thread.
The syndrome of d-lactic acidosis can arise from the production and absorption of d-lactic acid from bacteria in the intestine. In some cases, increased D-lactic acid production can occur when carbohydrate malabsorption in the small bowel leads to increased delivery of carbohydrates to the colon with subsequent fermentation by colonic bacteria to d-lactate. Unlike L-lactate, D-lactate accumulates in the body because of its slower 'metabolism' and so may cause CFS symptoms (
In Vivo 23, 621-628 (2009).
Bacteriologic analysis of fecal flora has shown a predominance of Gram-positive anaerobic organisms including a variety of lactobacillus, bifidobacterium, and eubacterium, which have been shown to produce d-lactate in vitro. Thus, anything that might increase anaerobic fermentation in the gut to increase d-lactate production may cause/exacerbate CFS symptoms. Possible triggers might be i) an over-abundance of d-lactate-producing bacteria in the gut, ii) a large carbohydrate meal that stagnates in the colon, ii) decreased renal function resulting in decreased excretion of D-lactate, iii) increased colon permeability and/or iv) decreased gut motility. Treatments targeting any of these issues may be helpful in alleviating the symptoms of D-lactate acidosis in CFS patients.
Some gram-negative enterobacteria may also cause CFS symptoms. Studies have suggested that some gram-negative bacteria may increase intestinal permeability and absorption of endotoxins leading to inflammation, immune activation and oxidative stress, which are prevalent symptoms in a large subset of CFS patients (
In Vivo23, 621-628 (2009). The gram-negative marker, LPS (a sugar that is shed from bacteria), is increased in the blood of some CFS patients (
Microbiome 4, 30 (2016).
One of the difficulties with probiotic treatments is that often we have no idea whether our our symptoms are due to alterations in our gut microbiomes and which are the 'bad' gut bacteria and which are the 'good' bacteria. So, it is not always a simple task of knowing which bacterial strains we might use to replentish our microbiomes. For example, may probiotics contain Bifidobacteria which are a group of lactic acid-producing bacteria which could make CFS symptoms worse.
And our guts are populated by an extraordinary complex ecosystem of bacteria. A recent comprehensive study of 1135 Dutch volunteers using deep DNA sequencing showed that while >99% of their gut microbiomes were composed of hundreds of bacterial species, their total gut microbiome was composed of thousands of species. While they were able to see differences between 'healthy' and 'non-healthy' volunteers, it was difficult to causally identify specific 'culprit bacteria' for specific diseases. Furthermore, little is known about most of the species that populate our guts in terms of their precise roles in health and disease. In many cases, the culture conditions for many gut bacteria are not even established so they cannot be produced for probiotics (
Science 352, 565 (2016).
So it is perhaps not surprising that probiotics make some CFS patients sicker and others better. In some cases, the effects of probiotics may even differ in the same person depending on their diet. For example, because our microbiomes can change significantly according to our diets, responses to probiotics may differ markedly depending on whether we have a high carbohydrate diet composed of simple sugars or a low carbohydrate diet composed of complex sugars. In such cases, taking bifidobacteria probiotics with a large carbohydrate meal composed of simple sugars would allow bifidobacteria to rapidly proliferate as they gorge on the abundance of sugars and churn out d-lacate leading to a worsening of CFS symptoms.
So, like many treatments in CFS, many of us have tried probiotics. If it works, great! If not, soldier on........
Rodger