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High dose vitamin B1 (thiamine)

Asklipia

Senior Member
Messages
999
Now that I think of it, we did both have frequent burping for the first few months. This has now gone though. No sin of burping for the last month or so.
Something which may be related to thiamine : we both have grown a lot of hairs at the base of the skull, from a line south of the bottom of the ears. Thick and wavy.
I wonder if this is not an external manifestation of repairs induced by thiamine on the brainstem, since this area is the most targeted by thiamine deficiency.

If more thiamine brings more hair there, what about other parts of the skull? What is missing in different areas of the scalp? Or will thiamine eventually bring hair to other areas?
 
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Kathevans

Senior Member
Messages
689
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
This is interesting. I have a very itchy skull on the Allithiamin, which I've never had before. Both this symptom and the blotchy face along either side of my nose waned after a week on 50 mg/ day and when I raised the dose to cover the IBS(refeeding symptom...?) that returned. But then, I'm fiddling with more than one thing, so the picture isn't truly clear.
 

CedarHome

Senior Member
Messages
131
@raghav You seem to have started with very high doses. Thiamine in the beginning will detox heavy metals, I had mercury patches on the cheeks with even 33 mg fursultiamine. It is well worth it starting slow and increasing slowly. At all stages there is improvement and that is the important thing. We still see improvements after more than a year and we went from 33 mg fursultiamine to about 500 mg at present (all lipophilic thiamines combined). Until I stop seeing improvements I am not pushing further the dosage. It is true that I feel well and that there is no life or death problem for the moment.
Take care :heart:
Be well! :hug:
Sorry for mercury question in thiamine thread but -
Can you say a little more about the mercury patches on your cheeks?

What do they look like and how long do they last?

thank you~
 

Asklipia

Senior Member
Messages
999
They were grey blue over the teeth on the cheeks, which is why I thought they were mercury from previous (long removed) amalgam fillings, faded slowly then could only be seen in bright light then were completely gone. I don't know really how long it took because I don't watch myself very much and also they were not very noticeable after a couple of months. This has happened a few times in the last ten years, but when they go away, they go away completely. There is a reddish stage after the blue-grey.
Be well! :hug:
 

Kathevans

Senior Member
Messages
689
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
@CedarHome I think I may have mentioned having these 'mercury patches' on another thread--Either this or some other form of detox that combines a rash on my forehead and red blotches very much in the position of the underlying sinuses, or, in fact, the look you read about for those who have lupus. For me, the rash appeared soon after starting Alithiamine at about 12mg 2 or three times a day and now, at just over 150mg/day, it has begun to dissipate. The skin, as it heals, is very dry also, and I have had to use a facial scrub to remove it. Now, if I up the dose significantly it becomes a bit redder, but if I go slowly, I'm left primarily with night sweats...and some sore lymph nodes (appeared in the last week). My sore calves, which appeared early on, I see as a symptom of refeeding, and that pain began to ease also at about 150mg/day. I also have a lot of mucus, nasal congestion, itchy head--- Let's face it, this was a serious deficiency! Did I say it completely stopped my heart palpitations. Only an occasional flutter at this point.

Oh, and I've been at it only for a little over a month...

Well, after reading @Asklipia 's description, I wonder if my patches were mercury. Possibly a host of other stuff! It's always good to know what people are experiencing. It helps us to hone in on possibilities!
 

Asklipia

Senior Member
Messages
999
Something else happened last week : I had a very painful spot on the left biceps. This was like a muscular pain from over exertion of the muscle, maybe tearing. But I had done absolutely nothing special with that arm!
It was deep and very localized. In fact just in the spot used for vaccination.
Lasted for three days, gone as if it had never happened.
Strange.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
rash on my forehead and red blotches very much in the position of the underlying sinuses, or, in fact, the look you read about for those who have lupus. For me, the rash appeared soon after starting Alithiamine at about 12mg 2 or three times a day and now, at just over 150mg/day, it has begun to dissipate.
There is fresh new research on Rosacea:
Rosacea: Molecular Mechanisms and Management of a Chronic Cutaneous Inflammatory Condition (Open access free pdf)

...
3.2. Demodex Colonization

Demodex folliculorum is a species of facial mite readily found in the pilosebaceous units of humans.
Individuals with rosacea exhibit a markedly increased density of demodex on their skin compared to
controls in studies with skin surface biopsy specimen [50,51]. In addition, a higher population density
of demodex was also observed in patients with rosacea in quantification studies using a polymerase
chain reaction amplification method and a reflectance confocal microscopy [52,53]. Furthermore,
a reduction in the density of demodex mites was observed after treatment, which was correlated with
clinical improvement as measured by skin surface biopsy [54]. This reduction was also observed by
reflectance confocal microscopy [55].

The increased number of demodex mite exoskeletons might themselves act as pathogen-associated
molecular patterns, with the chitin released from demodex mites potentially prompting inflammatory
responses from keratinocytes through a TLR-2 pathway [56]. A recent study has shown that skin
samples with higher demodex densities exhibited enhanced expression of genes for interleukin (IL)-8,
IL-1, tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-α, cyclooxygenase-1, and the inflammasome [52]. Consistent with
this, Demodex folliculorum has been shown to facilitate the activation of the NLRP3 inflammasome,
which subsequently associates with caspase-1 and results in the release of the proinflammatory cytokine
IL-1 [57].

Furthermore, the inflammatory reactions might also be aggravated when dead mites release their
resident bacteria, which would likely further induce the chemotaxis of neutrophils [58]. Chemotactic
factors such as IL-8 and TNF-α in turn attract more neutrophils to the tissue and thereby aggravate
the inflammatory reaction [59]. Moreover, activated neutrophils induce the release of cathelicidin and
MMP-9, which cause further tissue damage.

Researchers have suggested various mechanisms to explain the association between demodex
mites and rosacea. For example, a genetic susceptibility effected by HLA-Cw2 and HLA-Cw4
might alter the local immune reaction pattern to demodex mites and promote their proliferation
and survival [60], suggested by the finding of Akilov et al. [16] that these haplotypes were associated
with increased demodex mite density. The frequent occurrence of demodecidosis in patients with
immunodeficiency and vascular insufficiency suggests that an abnormal vascularized surface as well
as a compromised patient immune status along with genetic predisposition might be suspected as
factors promoting the proliferation of demodex in rosacea [61–63]. Thus, demodex proliferation
facilitated by compromised tissue in rosacea may lead to exacerbation of the pathologic condition
through enhanced inflammation mediated by host response to both the mites themselves and their
harbored microorganisms.
...
@alethea mentioned before that B1 seems to repel mites.
 

CedarHome

Senior Member
Messages
131
Thanks for replying re: rashes

I seem to get an intermittent mystery facial rash that no one can diagnose AND there is rosacea in my family.

helpful on all accounts!
 

JasonUT

Senior Member
Messages
303
@alethea mentioned before that B1 seems to repel mites.

Yes, I can confirm that B1 does seem to repel insects. Especially mosquitos. A couple weeks ago I was sitting in my back yard and noticed 10-15 mosquitos flying around me, but none of them would land on me. I sat in the chair and watched them for about 5 minutes. They would come within an inch of my skin, but not a single bite. It was the strangest thing.
 

Asklipia

Senior Member
Messages
999
There is fresh new research on Rosacea:
@alethea mentioned before that B1 seems to repel mites.
This is consistent with my experience.
Mosquitoes lost interest in me when I was using LED red light. Some posts about this.
Red light gave a lot of thiamine-like effects.
As to the thiamine protecting against mosquitoes, we have experienced it too.
Interesting about rosacea findings. I suffered from it all my youth (together with attracting mosquitoes and general thiamine deficiency as I now understand). It went away with MK4 supplementation. It came back with a vengeance as blepharitis when I was staying in a fluoride area. Very difficult to cure, but it went away after 4 months of high thiamine supplementation.
So the mites hypothesis sticks.
 

Kathevans

Senior Member
Messages
689
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
Well, well, well! I'm glad to be rid of them! Are these mites similar to dust mites, I womnder? My sinuses are clearing more and more as I use the B1. In the past I've also had a natural healer tell me that rosacea was a manifestation of candida.

I am hovering around 170mg of Allithiamin per day and the rash is constantly improving. There is also a lot of throat and post nasal mucus and sputtering late in the evening and on and off in those first few hours of sleep and waking at night. By about 3 a.m. Things have settled down. Maybe I'm pushing a bit too fast...
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
In the past I've also had a natural healer tell me that rosacea was a manifestation of candida.
Just like Candida, Rosacea could be a manifestation of hyperglycemia, and we know B1 is very important for proper carb metabolism.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27328660 (see enclosed file)
Eur J Dermatol. 2016 Jun 1;26(3):260-4. doi: 10.1684/ejd.2016.2748.
The relationship between rosacea and insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome.

Abstract
Rosacea is a chronic inflammatory skin disease affecting the face. A positive correlation has been found between rosacea and cardiovascular diseases. We sought to investigate the relation between rosacea and metabolic syndrome (MS) and insulin resistance (IR). Between January and June 2015, a case-control study including 47 age-, gender-, and body mass index (BMI)-matched rosacea patients and 50 controls was conducted. Demographic data, clinical features of rosacea patients, anthropometric measures, laboratory findings, blood pressure levels, BMI, smoking history, alcohol consumption, sports life, family history of cardiovascular disease, and presence of MS and IR were recorded. Forty-seven rosacea patients (12 men and 35 women; age range: 35-68 years) and 50 controls (11 men and 39 women; age range: 38-78 years) were included in our study. Of 47 rosacea patients, 24 had erythematotelangiectatic type, 22 had papulopustular type, and one had phymatous type. Whereas the rate of IR was significantly higher in the rosacea group, there was no significant difference in the rate of MS between rosacea and the control group (p = 0.009 and p = 0.186, respectively). In addition, the rosacea group had significantly higher fasting blood glucose, total cholesterol, and systolic and diastolic blood pressure levels (p<0.05). Mean levels of LDL, triglyceride, total cholesterol and CRP were significantly higher than in the control group (p<0.05). Our findings suggest that there is a relationship between rosacea and IR and some parameters of cardiovascular risk factors. We recommend investigation of IR in rosacea patients.
 

Attachments

  • Rosacea insulin resistance 2016.pdf
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Kathevans

Senior Member
Messages
689
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
@Gondwanaland Yes! Thank you so much for putting so many of these pieces together. I was ridiculously hypoglycemic for years. It's much better at this point, and I'm looking for further improvement with the B1.

Oh, and although I only weigh about 112 pounds, my cholesterol is very high... this occurred as a slow climb over the last 8 years or so as my health generally declined. Let's see what the Thiamin will do...
 

Asklipia

Senior Member
Messages
999
we both have grown a lot of hairs at the base of the skull, from a line south of the bottom of the ears. Thick and wavy.
I wonder if this is not an external manifestation of repairs induced by thiamine on the brainstem, since this area is the most targeted by thiamine deficiency.

If more thiamine brings more hair there, what about other parts of the skull? What is missing in different areas of the scalp? Or will thiamine eventually bring hair to other areas?
DH just informed me that he has grown a bunch of curly thick hairs from his left ear!!!!! Not the right one though.
Curiouser and curiouser! This is what I had noticed on healthy Sikh taxi drivers! From both ears in their case.

It might mean that this fur will go up on his scalp? He hopes so!:)
For the moment my ears are normal.