• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Larifan as an Ampligen alternative? Has this ever been tried in ME/CFS?

Jesse2233

Senior Member
Messages
1,942
Location
Southern California
In another thread @Jeremy C. put forward the idea that Ampligen's mechanism of action might be replicated by the interferon inducer Larifan. He shared a link, which contains the following summary.

Larfian

Larifan is a double-stranded RNA (dsRNA) of natural origin obtained from bacteriophage-infected E.coli cells. It is a heterogeneous population of dsRNA molecules with the mean molecular mass of about 500 kDa and the average length of RNA is 400 nt/p. Larifan (dsRNA) has been developed as a new poly-functional and wide-spectrum medical drug for viral and oncological diseases.

Larifan possesses various biological activities like interferon - inducing, immunomodulating, antiviral, antitumoral and antimutagenic properties. These activities are a result of the action of the induced endogenous interferon, but they also may be provoked directly by the dsRNA molecule.

Some drug forms such as ointment and injection form are being produced for human use; clinical trial of suppositories is in progress.

Larifan clinical efficacy has been studied in different clinics and institutes of Latvia and previous USSR since the 80-ties of the last century. In human clinics Larifan is employed as an immunomodulator with antiviral and antitumoral activities. Its therapeutic antiviral effect has been demonstrated in the treatment of herpes (in Russian, Ukrainian, Latvian clinics), papilloma, respiratory a.o. virus infections.

Unlike other Ampligen analogues Ridostin or Polyguacil, Larifan seems to be available for purchase.

I'm curious if anyone knows whether or not Larifan has ever been used by an ME/CFS patient. I found no reference on PR or across the web other than @Hip and @heapsreal mentioning it in the context of other interferon inducers.

I'm also curious on the thoughts of our scientifically minded posters on whether Larifan could actually approach Ampligen's demonstrated effectivensss for a certain post viral, high nRnase subset.

------

This is my third post in a series on Ampligen.

See: Update in Ampligen availability in the US
And: What does Ampligen's effectiveness tell us in light of the latest research?

I'm intrigued with Amplgien because of the plethora of stories touting its effectiveness and its frustrating elusiveness
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,089
Location
australia (brisbane)
Most of the research on many of these interferon inducers seem to be done in russia and the Ukraine. It would be good if some of the richer western countries would pursue this research but im not sure it would be in the area of cfsme treatments.

I think if some can be diagnosed and treated for all their infections with the right avs and abx etc and i thing interferon inducers would help finish off these infections and then used to maintain a strong immune system.

It seems that these interferon treatments are effective for those with enteroviruses going by Dr Chia's research. I think one of the main problems we have is that i dont think current medicine can even diagnose many chronic infections and i dont think they are that interested in doing so unfortunately. Its easier for them to diagnose some sort of mood disorder or generalized autoimmunity issue when they cant pin point the cause of someones symptoms .

Ranting abit, but theres that strong relationship with interferon and natural killer cell function also.
 

Jesse2233

Senior Member
Messages
1,942
Location
Southern California
Most of the research on many of these interferon inducers seem to be done in russia and the Ukraine. It would be good if some of the richer western countries would pursue this research but im not sure it would be in the area of cfsme treatments.

I think if some can be diagnosed and treated for all their infections with the right avs and abx etc and i thing interferon inducers would help finish off these infections and then used to maintain a strong immune system.

It seems that these interferon treatments are effective for those with enteroviruses going by Dr Chia's research. I think one of the main problems we have is that i dont think current medicine can even diagnose many chronic infections and i dont think they are that interested in doing so unfortunately. Its easier for them to diagnose some sort of mood disorder or generalized autoimmunity issue when they cant pin point the cause of someones symptoms .

Ranting abit, but theres that strong relationship with interferon and natural killer cell function also.

Yes I agree, would be good to get more interferon inducer research here.

How does the mechanism of action of interferon-gamma / alpha (which Chia uses) compare with Larifan or Ampligen?
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
How does the mechanism of action of interferon-gamma / alpha (which Chia uses) compare with Larifan or Ampligen?
The latter let the body control the rate of interferon release in response to the stimulus. With injectable recombinant interferon, you're not letting the body control anything, you're just flooding it with interferon it didn't produce. Several kinds are pegylated as well, which slows the breakdown of it, so it hangs around longer in the body than natural interferon does.
 

Jesse2233

Senior Member
Messages
1,942
Location
Southern California
The latter let the body control the rate of interferon release in response to the stimulus. With injectable recombinant interferon, you're not letting the body control anything, you're just flooding it with interferon it didn't produce. Several kinds are pegylated as well, which slows the breakdown of it, so it hangs around longer in the body than natural interferon does.

Thanks Halycon, that's interesting. Is there a reason a physician would choose one kind over the other?
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
Is there a reason a physician would choose one kind over the other?
I imagine the toxicity and side effects are probably lessened by using something like Ampligen, but I imagine the effects aren't as strong either. Interferon treatment can be pretty horrible from what I've read, though it also doesn't sound too different from what people with ME go through anyways.
 
Messages
39
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Thanks for starting this post @Jesse2233. Definitely something I am interested in!

Yes, I was very keen to try interferon with all the difficulties in accessing Ampligen, but the side effects can be pretty bad. The one I worry about is that it seems it can trigger autoimmune disease. Also terrible depression. There is one person with ME who has claimed success with low dose interferon, which is interesting. Another person on Phoenix Rising did not respond, but did not respond to Ampligen either.
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,089
Location
australia (brisbane)
Yes I agree, would be good to get more interferon inducer research here.

How does the mechanism of action of interferon-gamma / alpha (which Chia uses) compare with Larifan or Ampligen?

From what i have read about cycloferon, it mainly stimulates alpha and beta interferon which are said to be anti inflammatory, gamma interferon is said to be pro inflammatory so can make people feel worse which could be why many feel worse of certain interferons.

Cycloferon and other interferon inducers were also used by russian drs after a patient had been through an interferon treatment course. Interferon treatments it seems can have a negative feedback mechanism so ones natural interferon can be much lower after IF treatments.

I also wonder if this could be why dr chia has patients relapse after interferon treatments. I wonder if an appropriate IF inducer after interferon could help hold his treatment responders longer??

Certain coinfections may need more then IF also to have a positive response??
 

Jesse2233

Senior Member
Messages
1,942
Location
Southern California
Thanks for starting this post @Jesse2233. Definitely something I am interested in!

Yes, I was very keen to try interferon with all the difficulties in accessing Ampligen, but the side effects can be pretty bad. The one I worry about is that it seems it can trigger autoimmune disease. Also terrible depression. There is one person with ME who has claimed success with low dose interferon, which is interesting. Another person on Phoenix Rising did not respond, but did not respond to Ampligen either.

That's interesting. Have you ever tried any of the milder interferon inducers? Or even herbal interferon inducers like oxymatrine?

I also wonder if this could be why dr chia has patients relapse after interferon treatments. I wonder if an appropriate IF inducer after interferon could help hold his treatment responders longer??

Certain coinfections may need more then IF also to have a positive response??

I just remembered, Dr Chia told me that in some Hep C patients the use of interferon had actually induced ME/CFS. Not sure what to make of this
 
Messages
39
Location
Melbourne, Australia
That's interesting. Have you ever tried any of the milder interferon inducers? Or even herbal interferon inducers like oxymatrine?

Not yet, but I have recently ordered some Cycloferon and Anaferon. My worry with these is that I have no idea how safe they really are, especially to take long-term.

Is oxymatrine actually an interferon inducer? I was never sure whether Dr Chia was recommending it because it was an interferon inducer or because it had a direct action against enteroviruses
 

Jesse2233

Senior Member
Messages
1,942
Location
Southern California
I imagine the toxicity and side effects are probably lessened by using something like Ampligen, but I imagine the effects aren't as strong either. Interferon treatment can be pretty horrible from what I've read, though it also doesn't sound too different from what people with ME go through anyways.

In your view, if one is a responder to Ampligen are they also likely to be a responder to interferon?
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,089
Location
australia (brisbane)
In your view, if one is a responder to Ampligen are they also likely to be a responder to interferon?

There seems to be a link between ms and cfs, how strong that link is, is debatable but ms pts are put on different interferons to help them. I dont think they really know how it helps ms. Theres are strong association with ebv and ms, theres also be some good results with ms pts using antiretrovirals.
 

Jesse2233

Senior Member
Messages
1,942
Location
Southern California
It seems using an interferon inducer along with oxymartine has synergistic effects.

There's this 2016 study from China using the above combo to treat Chronic HVB
Combined therapy of interferon plus OMTR were also superior to interferon therapies alone in achieving the endof-treatment viral response, alaninetransaminase normalization, HBeAg loss, and HBeAg seroconversion.

And there's also Dr Chia's case study of putting his son in long term remission using the same combo.

If interferon therapy is too difficult for many to tolerate, I wonder if a protocol combining Ampligen, Larifan, Ridostin, Polyguacil, or other Russian interferon inducers with oxymartine could be effective