B2 - Info On Linus Pauling re FMN and FAD Actions

[Jigsaw]

In light of the info that Greg from b12 oils has passed on to some members here, I've been hunting round for more info on riboflavin and its place in the great scheme of things.

It's particularly interesting to me, since Greg says you need sufficient thyroid hormone(s) (T4 and T3) to convert riboflavin to either of the active forms, Flavin Mononucleotide and Flavin Adenine Dinucleotide.

I've always had a problem with B2, it makes me feel violently nauseous and has done as long as I can remember, and I also have a thyroid issue - I don't convert enough T4 into T3, and I also don't pick up enough T3 to keep the engine running.

That means that I have been deficient in FMN and FAD for well over 30 years, probably longer, and will have been experiencing the widespread ramifications of that in relation to methylation at least partially because of a basic FMN and FAD deficiency.

Amongst other things, FMN and FAD are involved with glutathione, xanthines, pre-eclampsia, B6, iron, MTHFR, folate, cataracts, cancer

It's another puzzle-piece for me . Maybe it will be for you

See here - I think this is fascinating, particularly in the context of methylation cycles, since it's involved in homocysteine » methionine conversion, amongst a range of other conversion pathways and processes, such as glutathione, xanthines, B6 » P5P, iron, MTHFR and folate metabolism, and conditions such as migraine and mitochondria damage/function, pre-eclampsia, cataracts, and cancer, PLUS, riboflavin deficiency causes a sore throat - a common ME/CFS symptom:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/riboflavin#nutrient-interactions

 

[keenly]

So injections of Riboflavin are futile if one can not convert it?

Sounds like what we need is a sublingual spray of the active form.

 

[Jigsaw]

So injections of Riboflavin are futile if one can not convert it?

Sounds like what we need is a sublingual spray of the active form.

Quite possibly, yes.

I use a sublingual FMN, but put the tablet in the buccal cavity, between the upper lip and the gum, instead of under the tongue. Same goes for my B complex, and my Chem Defense, which is molybdenum, FMN, plus selenium. I find that extremely helpful when I'm headachey, nauseous, and brain-fogged because I've ingested something my system can't metabolise normally.

There are lots of posts on the B12/ methylation forum about that method allowing for far greater absorption through prolonged contact, which I'd tag if I could remember exactly where I'd seen them.

I don't personally like oral sprays. They usually have additives that make them problematic for me, plus there's the absorption:contact time issue to consider when it comes to mucosal delivery. Transdermal delivery would be ideal, but I haven't yet found a coenzymated B patch except for B12. Methylated B12 patches are widely available.

Are you having problems with straight riboflavin, then?

 

[keenly]

Quite possibly, yes.

I use a sublingual FMN, but put the tablet in the buccal cavity, between the upper lip and the gum, instead of under the tongue. Same goes for my B complex, and my Chem Defense, which is molybdenum, FMN, plus selenium. I find that extremely helpful when I'm headachey, nauseous, and brain-fogged because I've ingested something my system can't metabolise normally.

There are lots of posts on the B12/ methylation forum about that method allowing for far greater absorption through prolonged contact, which I'd tag if I could remember exactly where I'd seen them.

I don't personally like oral sprays. They usually have additives that make them problematic for me, plus there's the absorption:contact time issue to consider when it comes to mucosal delivery. Transdermal delivery would be ideal, but I haven't yet found a coenzymated B patch except for B12. Methylated B12 patches are widely available.

Are you having problems with straight riboflavin, then?

Taken orally it is poorly absorbed and can be used by bacteria. I recently messed my whole body up with adding B12 and other B vits Trandermally, whilst having low B2 levels. I asked Greg about a transdermal oil but he said it is very difficult to do. He can do low doses only, which I said is fine.

It seems we need to make sure B2 and co factors are in place BEFORE adding B12. These include selenium,Iodine and Molybdenum. I started Iodine again a few days ago, and get immediate headaches with one drop. That tells me I am very deficient. This is the form I have http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SURVIVAL-...606360?hash=item282b90ded8:g:1iEAAOSw~AVYoYc1

A low dose transdermal oil would be great IMO. We could apply it several times a day(daytime only), then when we add B12 and other vits we should be able to tolerate them better.

 

[Jigsaw]

Taken orally it is poorly absorbed and can be used by bacteria. I recently messed my whole body up with adding B12 and other B vits Trandermally, whilst having low B2 levels. I asked Greg about a transdermal oil but he said it is very difficult to do. He can do low doses only, which I said is fine.

It seems we need to make sure B2 and co factors are in place BEFORE adding B12. These include selenium,Iodine and Molybdenum. I started Iodine again a few days ago, and get immediate headaches with one drop. That tells me I am very deficient. This is the form I have http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SURVIVAL-...606360?hash=item282b90ded8:g:1iEAAOSw~AVYoYc1

A low dose transdermal oil would be great IMO. We could apply it several times a day(daytime only), then when we add B12 and other vits we should be able to tolerate them better.

Hi @keenly,

Thanks for your post

I think I did the same thing. Initial significant improvements, then crash. Now using FMN as above.

Intersting re: possible B2 oil. Did Greg say if it would be riboflavin, FMN, or FAD?

Curious - why does your response to iodine indicate deficiency? Typically, headaches for me are a massive red flag for sensitivity/ conversion blocks that need to be addressed first. I understand that deficiency causes blocks, but more usually in that substance's pathway and detoxing of its metabolites rather than the substance itself. Am interested in hearing your thinking behind it

I'm all co-factored up, aside from iodine, as previously posted. I don't need iodine for attaching those 4 iodine molecules onto tyrosine to turn it into thyroid hormone T4, because I have a conversion issue there and take T3 instead. Hence, I make almost zero T4, which freaks docs out when they run standard thyroid tests, so I can't use as much iodine as a normal body would.

Am aware I still need it, and use iodised table salt plus get 225mcg in my multi. More than that gives me what I recognise as my standard toxic response, headaches, nausea, malaise, temperature, zits, etc.

Will look at your iodine link with interest.

 

[Mutt]

Did anything ever happen about this transdermal low-dose B2 oil?

Metabolics do a liquid FMN, which I was simply going to rub into the skin and assume I would get at least some benefit.