rapid buildup of tolerance and paradoxical reactions

[soundasacrystal]

How do I deal with this? If it were not for this problem it would be fairly straightforward to figure out what to take to feel better. I'm currently considering hemp cbd oil for anxiety and insomnia, but with my history of paradoxical reactions and rapid tolerance to supplements and herbs, I feel like it will just be another dead end. Or worse.

 

[aaron_c]

Hi @soundasacrystal

I don't have any direct experience with hemp/cbd oil, partly because I have also had many paradoxical or short-lived reactions to herbs.

I think there might be a few problems going on here. One possibility is that we cannot process certain xenobiotics (including herbs) properly. Another is simply that our *unique* biochemistry may be interfering with what the herbs would normally do. A related possibility is that we have an autoimmune condition, which could likewise cause a lot of paradoxical reactions.

In any case, I have found non-herbal supplements to be much more reliable--although by no means free of risk. But usually when non-herbal supplements--like methylfolate, for instance--cause an adverse reaction we understand why and know what to do about it.

I think non-herbal supplements are simpler in this way because:

1. We know everything they contain, and it is possible to take supplements with a single active ingredient. As far as I am aware, we are never sure how many active ingredients we are taking when we take herbs.
2. Most herbs, like most drugs, work by interfering with or bypassing some aspect of physiology. This is good, essential in fact, but it does make the results more complicated and unreliable than the results of adding, for instance, more magnesium to someone who is magnesium deficient.
3. When adding new supplements to my regimen or fiddling with dosages, xenobiotics complicate the equation immensely. Was my insomnia due to too much methylation? Or is my methylation working decently now and just not mixing well with my antidepressant? Some herbs can easily be stopped or started in order to answer these kinds of questions but some herbs (and drugs) can take weeks before our bodies function more or less like they were before.

That said I know a number of fibro people who swear by CBD oil, and some of them use it for insomnia.

 

[soundasacrystal]

I've found the same thing. I understand and can work with the challenges of using methylfolate and magnesium and zinc. Herbs are another story altogether. I really wish they would work like they do for other people. It would make things much simpler.

 

[Mary]

How do I deal with this? If it were not for this problem it would be fairly straightforward to figure out what to take to feel better. I'm currently considering hemp cbd oil for anxiety and insomnia, but with my history of paradoxical reactions and rapid tolerance to supplements and herbs, I feel like it will just be another dead end. Or worse.

Hi @soundasacrystal - the hemp cbd oil might be another dead end, or it might work great for you. I think for every supplement or herb that I have found that has helped me, I've tried 5 or 6 that didn't. But it was worth it to me to keep trying, as I have found a few things that really do help and if I had not kept experimenting, I never would have found them.

Having said that, here are some guidelines I tend to follow when I want to try something new:

1. Learn as much as I can about something before trying it; what adverse reactions do others have; what positive reactions, etc.

2. Only start one new thing at a time so you can figure out what is doing what to you.

3. Start with a low dose; and only slowly increase it.

4. Pay attention carefully to see how you react.

Many people have posted that B12 and/or folate made them feel like crap. Well, it turns out for many of them the problem was that the methylation supplements caused their potassium levels to tank, as new cells were being formed and rapidly dividing, which increased their need for potassium. So actually in this case feeling like crap was an indication that they really needed the B12 or folate, but they also badly needed to increase their potassium.

I disagree that non-herbal supplements are necessarily easier to deal with. When I first took B1, it gave me a great burst of energy - yay! - and then dropped me way down in a day or 2. My first thought was potassium but no, that wasn't it. Then I made an educated guess - I had been reading about refeeding syndrome and how hypophosphatemia is its hallmark - so I theorized that perhaps my phosphorous levels had tanked (I read about low phosphorous symptoms and they matched), so I added in a lot of kefir (high in phosphate) and sure enough, the terrible fatigue went away. I was able then to take a small amount of B1 and gradually increase the dose, keeping an eye out for low phosphate symptoms.

Most recently I started taking the herb andrographis - my sister had great results using it for a bad sinus infection - and I reacted very well to it.

Of course taking supplements and herbs can get very complex - throw in herx and detox reactions to various things as well as refeeding type symptoms and it can be difficult to sort out what is going on, but it's the only way I have made any progress.

 

[soundasacrystal]

Thanks Mary, that makes me feel hopeful. I guess it's not good to get so fearful of trying something new that we stagnate or miss out on potentially beneficial treatments.