Is DMG safe long term?

[bigmillz]

I've been using TMG for a while, and wondering if it's starting to lower my energy levels a bit. This had happened last year, per my log. I'd like to try DMG, based on reading what Rich said about long term use of TMG being problematic for some:

"The betaine will stimulate the alternative BHMT pathway in the liver and kidneys, and that may make it difficult to lift the partial block in the methionine synthase pathway, which is linked to the folate metabolism, and which needs to be operating normally to bring glutathione up and also get the folate metabolism back to normal. So if you don't notice much change after being on the simplified treatment approach for a couple of months or so, then you could consider adding some DMG (dimethylglycine), which will slow down the BHMT pathway and hopefully shift more of the flow to the methionine synthase pathway. I think this has to be done by trial and error, because different people may respond differently, based on genetics."

However, I found this while searching around:

Dimethylglycine (DMG) and trimethylglycine (TMG) donate methyl groups to the methylation cycle. TMG is needed to recycle homocysteine and help produce SAMe. If DMG is beneficial for your child, note that long term use will slow methylation. After a period of DMG supplementation, it is important to start using TMG and SAMe to optimize this vital cycle needed for neurological health.

Source: http://treatautism.ca/2015/03/31/au...ping-to-repair-your-childs-methylation-cycle/

Not sure I trust this site. Most everything I've read here shows that DMG can be considered after TMG to move away from the BHMT pathway, once the "long route" is well supported.

Thoughts on this? Has anyone moved from TMG to DMG and had positive results?

 

[aaron_c]

I've used both TMG and DMG, and they have seemed to work more or less as advertised; TMG increases SAMe and DMG seems to decrease SAMe--but only for an hour or maybe two.

I think the concern of the second source you cited was that DMG, by slowing the BHMT enzyme, would decrease SAMe--and they don't want to do that too much.

My take is that they've put the cart before the horse. While methylation is all well and good, Rich Van Konynenburg argued that problems with oxidation of folates and possibly B12 issues were the primary causes of the undermethylation seen in ME and possibly autism. Treatautism.ca's suggestion to move to TMG and SAMe would slow down methionine synthase and potentially slow down the entire folic acid cycle, which is what Rich Van Konynenburg was concerned about in the first quote.

TMG never lowered my energy, but it has caused problems focusing at one point. I figured it had something to do with cysteine deficiency--and maybe so--but DMG had the same effect. I ended up having to go off both and now take extra potassium or extra apple cider vinegar pills in order to get enough stomach acid to digest stuff.

 

[bigmillz]

I've used both TMG and DMG, and they have seemed to work more or less as advertised; TMG increases SAMe and DMG seems to decrease SAMe--but only for an hour or maybe two.

I think the concern of the second source you cited was that DMG, by slowing the BHMT enzyme, would decrease SAMe--and they don't want to do that too much.

My take is that they've put the cart before the horse. While methylation is all well and good, Rich Van Konynenburg argued that problems with oxidation of folates and possibly B12 issues were the primary causes of the undermethylation seen in ME and possibly autism. Treatautism.ca's suggestion to move to TMG and SAMe would slow down methionine synthase and potentially slow down the entire folic acid cycle, which is what Rich Van Konynenburg was concerned about in the first quote.

TMG never lowered my energy, but it has caused problems focusing at one point. I figured it had something to do with cysteine deficiency--and maybe so--but DMG had the same effect. I ended up having to go off both and now take extra potassium or extra apple cider vinegar pills in order to get enough stomach acid to digest stuff.

Thanks for the insight - I'm definitely leaning towards Rich's opinion on this, as I feel it's much better founded. Treatautism.ca doesn't seem to have a source or anything. Could be a typo/mixup for all we know.

I'll give DMG a shot for a few weeks and see how I fare. If it's not positive, I'll try TMG again. I definitely seem to have more energy without TMG in the long term (short term, it's very energizing), but it definitely benefits my ability to focus as well staying on the TMG. I'm off it this week, and quite a bit more scatter brained.

From what I've read too (mostly from Rich), TMG boosts SAMe, but the methionine synthase pathway should produce SAMe on its own anyways, when running properly.

 

[Critterina]

My take is that it depends entirely on who you are. For me, TMG is good, DMG is bad, black and white. But in the methylation cycle, I there are two key enzymes, and you have two copies of the gene for each enzyme. I have the most serious mutations in all four genes. DMG slows the BHMT pathway because TMG is a reactant and DMG is a product. So, the fact that I'm sensitive (and believe me, I'm never taking DMG again!) probably means that I've very dependent on the second pathway, even when my B12/folate are well-supplemented.

I think if your folate/B12 is working well, it might not matter as much. If you don't have both the MTRR A66G and BHMT-08 homozygous mutations, you probably don't stand a change of reacting like I did. If you do have them, it still may be 50/50.

 

[cutie2u222]

My immune system has fallen, IGG and IGM because of low protein and coffee enemas. I have read where DMG will help both arms of the immune system and also help my B cells.

Could I take this and just up my samE to offset the effects?

Would that work. IGM is 31. Low normal is 48. Need help!

Thank you,

 

[gilles]

I just wanted to chime in (on an old thread) to say thanks for writing all this up. It's an old thread, but it's still on topic... I wanted to post my genes and current analysis/write-up here in case it's useful to anyone else. And also in case I'm misunderstanding so that I can be corrected... as I'm pretty new to understanding methylation.

Here it is:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fSw4LNbp1AgosX6na9Xp9t5GG3ZYhuDEQvgo3h47kdY/edit#

Thanks,
Brandon

 

[perchance dreamer]

In my experience, TMG was too energizing and gave me insomnia. I find DMG calming.