Feeling worse earthing

[outdamnspot]

I started earthing five days ago using a wristband that a company sent me. A multimeter confirms I am indeed grounded, and the only electronic device I've been using during that time (my laptop) is grounded as well.

The first time I tried on the band, I crashed almost immediately -- POTS, hypoglycemia etc. all worsened. I thought it might be placebo, but have been wearing the band pretty consistently since (and sleeping with it around my ankle).

I sense it must be doing something because my body feels warmer and I am a little bit calmer/less angry. But, at the same time, I feel constantly 'crashed' and malaised with increased appetite, dehydration, headaches, more off-balance and dizziness etc. Sometimes I experience a kind of internal buzzing, and I am so much more foggy than usual; my mood is also worse. I am combining it with other detoxing efforts such as coffee enemas, but those never left me feeling like this.

My understanding is that earthing regulates rather than lowers cortisol per se (directly lowering cortisol tends to make me a lot worse). So is it possible this is all just related to the initial 'detoxing' that earthing can generate? The company suggests it should only last a few days, which is why I was concerned. I am happy to push through feeling crappy if I know it will probably pass.

 

[Cheesus]

I didn't notice any effect from earthing other than the tingling sensation in my legs. Beyond that it didn't do anything one way or the other.

I have seen accounts from people who had negative reactions. They backed off for a little while then started again by doing short periods of it and building up slowly. In the end they found it very helpful. I have seen time and again that a slow and steady is usually a good way to approach new treatments.

 

[Sidereal]

I felt vastly better POTS/OI-wise for the first few days. Objective improvements on the BP cuff as well as subjective improvements in symptoms. It felt almost miraculous and too good to be true to be honest. I wasn't placebo because I've tried hundreds if not thousands of interventions and responded to only a handful. After a few days it turned very negative similar to the symptoms you describe. It definitely wasn't PEM because I wasn't overdoing when I felt better initially. It felt more like immune system starting to go after latent infections. I discontinued it.

 

[outdamnspot]

I didn't notice any effect from earthing other than the tingling sensation in my legs. Beyond that it didn't do anything one way or the other.

I have seen accounts from people who had negative reactions. They backed off for a little while then started again by doing short periods of it and building up slowly. In the end they found it very helpful. I have seen time and again that a slow and steady is usually a good way to approach new treatments.

I feel so terrible (mentally, physically) that I guess I feel like I don't have the luxury to go really slowly with treatments anymore. I'd rather try and push through feeling worse, as long as I'm resting a lot (which I am) and it isn't too taxing.

 

[outdamnspot]

I felt vastly better POTS/OI-wise for the first few days. Objective improvements on the BP cuff as well as subjective improvements in symptoms. It felt almost miraculous and too good to be true to be honest. I wasn't placebo because I've tried hundreds if not thousands of interventions and responded to only a handful. After a few days it turned very negative similar to the symptoms you describe. It definitely wasn't PEM because I wasn't overdoing when I felt better initially. It felt more like immune system starting to go after latent infections. I discontinued it.

That's interesting, I haven't really read about anyone feeling better and then worse .. though I did see some people say they slept a lot better the first night or two and then deteriorated; Hip said that activating the parasympathetic system would lead to enhanced immune activity. How long did you give it when feeling bad? I can't see why it would be making POTS worse, unless it is a kind of detoxing (which would also explain the headaches etc.). When I wrote to the company I bought it from, they did say it could be 1-2 weeks of feeling strange ..

 

[Sidereal]

That's interesting, I haven't really read about anyone feeling better and then worse .. though I did see some people say they slept a lot better the first night or two and then deteriorated; Hip said that activating the parasympathetic system would lead to enhanced immune activity. How long did you give it when feeling bad? I can't see why it would be making POTS worse, unless it is a kind of detoxing (which would also explain the headaches etc.). When I wrote to the company I bought it from, they did say it could be 1-2 weeks of feeling strange ..

Yeah. It was a few years ago so I don't remember the specifics but I think I tried it on and off for the next 2-3 weeks after it had started to make me feel bad. I felt really wired (no pun intended) and just gross, hard to explain. Definitely felt like immune activation. Increased NO production could explain worsening of POTS.

My situation is that I just don't have the patience anymore with various treatments that make you feel worse before the promise of feeling better at some unspecified point in the future. When your quality of life is so limited as it is, I just don't see the point in trying something for a long time that may end up just wasting that time feeling worse.

 

[outdamnspot]

Yeah. It was a few years ago so I don't remember the specifics but I think I tried it on and off for the next 2-3 weeks after it had started to make me feel bad. I felt really wired (no pun intended) and just gross, hard to explain. Definitely felt like immune activation. Increased NO production could explain worsening of POTS.

My situation is that I just don't have the patience anymore with various treatments that make you feel worse before the promise of feeling better at some unspecified point in the future. When your quality of life is so limited as it is, I just don't see the point in trying something for a long time that may end up just wasting that time feeling worse.

Fair enough. The problem is I feel like it will be hard to make advances in treatment until I can at least partially address my adrenals. I've tried glandulars, extracts, HC etc., without success. I had read about earthing improving things for some people, so am just hoping there is a positive turnaround. I kinda wish I did feel a little wired .. it tends to beat being completely foggy and out-of-it.

 

[moblet]

I think that any noticeable reaction to earthing is a good sign, and that you're right to want to perservere with it. If it's hammering you too much I'd second the advice from @Cheesus re backing it off a bit. Going from zero to 24/7 anything can be fraught when your body's struggling. Maybe try using it only when sleeping, or if that's still too much only for an hour at a time.

 

[outdamnspot]

I think that any noticeable reaction to earthing is a good sign, and that you're right to want to perservere with it. If it's hammering you too much I'd second the advice from @Cheesus re backing it off a bit. Going from zero to 24/7 anything can be fraught when your body's struggling. Maybe try using it only when sleeping, or if that's still too much only for an hour at a time.

Thanks moblet. Do you have experience with earthing?

 

[MastBCrazy]

I started earthing five days ago using a wristband that a company sent me. A multimeter confirms I am indeed grounded, and the only electronic device I've been using during that time (my laptop) is grounded as well.

The first time I tried on the band, I crashed almost immediately -- POTS, hypoglycemia etc. all worsened. I thought it might be placebo, but have been wearing the band pretty consistently since (and sleeping with it around my ankle).

I sense it must be doing something because my body feels warmer and I am a little bit calmer/less angry. But, at the same time, I feel constantly 'crashed' and malaised with increased appetite, dehydration, headaches, more off-balance and dizziness etc. Sometimes I experience a kind of internal buzzing, and I am so much more foggy than usual; my mood is also worse. I am combining it with other detoxing efforts such as coffee enemas, but those never left me feeling like this.

My understanding is that earthing regulates rather than lowers cortisol per se (directly lowering cortisol tends to make me a lot worse). So is it possible this is all just related to the initial 'detoxing' that earthing can generate? The company suggests it should only last a few days, which is why I was concerned. I am happy to push through feeling crappy if I know it will probably pass.

I have EHS so am very sensitive to EMF fields, and it sounds to me that you became an antenna as soon as you grounded. EHS aggravates my ME and adrenal issues (additional oxidative stress isn't helpful I guess).

So, hope you don't mind, but I have a two questions.
1) What are you grounded to? I was unable to do earthing in my former building as there were stray currents, so 'grounding' actually applied a charge to my body. To be beneficial, you also want to get rid of the charge easily. So a 'high impedance ground' could cause you problems too.
2) For your laptop, do you have have any radios turned on (Wifi for network, bluetooth for mouse, keyboard, headset)? If so, the antenna effect is plausible - and if turning off the radios resolves your symptoms then you have your answer. Exposure from other wireless (cell phone, cell tower, cordless phone, etc) could also impact you more.

TLDR: [Where electricity flows, there is electromagnetic radiation and vice versa. Ungrounded there is a capacitance effect, which isn't good, as it can have a negative influence on signalling. But, over the long term, the body accommodates (as best as it is able) to these capacitive effects (macroscopic voltage differences, in addition to the microscopic voltage differences present with all the chemistry happening in the body). Grounded though, there is a conductance effect, creating flow. Your body, acting like an antenna, intercepts the electromagnetic radiation, and now that you are grounded, there is a flow. That flow can mess everything up (some systems already on the maximum tolerable voltage have an additional voltage applied that overwhelms the system - so it may have further mess up intracellular signalling). A poor ground is the worst of both: you add part of the 'ground' to your effective antenna AND the flow doesn't effectively dissipate (or a surcharge voltage is applied to your body). Also, different electrical systems operate differently - eg UK vs US and pre1960's vs new.]

Just two thoughts as to why you may have gotten worse rather than better. Brain now fogged so can't think of impact of electrolytes (???give a double hit, one for POTS and one for grounding???).

While I agree that "low and slow" is usually a good idea, in this case, you may have identified something that otherwise could have been a slow negative perturbation (those small negative effects can be difficult to identify so they can be eliminated).

 

[L'engle]

I wonder if you might want to try another device that lets you regulate the amount of current you receive. Tapping into the mains hum of your power grid doesn't give you much control. You should be able to get or even make a device for a fairly low cost. I think Hip has done this using a small battery pack and some basic electrical components. Might want to ask him about it.

I'm skeptical of companies that promote their earthing products as 'tuning into the electrical current of the earth'. If you are in a building and grounded to a socket the current is coming from the power grid. The products do work as electro-conductive devices, but I would place more trust in a company that is upfront about where the current is coming from and gives you some way to regulate it.

I haven't tried any personally because I think they could be overstimulating, but it is a worthwhile avenue to consider. Whatever you do, don't pay a lot for it! The amount of current you are working with is of negligible cost and should be inexpensive to access.

 

[caledonia]

What happens if you go outside and sit or stand with your bare feet on the ground?

What happens when you take adrenal glandulars, etc.?

 

[moblet]

Thanks moblet. Do you have experience with earthing?

Yes. This post in another thread of yours was me. I started out with the homemade device pictured and found that it improved rest and stopped my nervous system replicating pain around my body. I now use earthing bedsheets and have an earthing mat at my computer keyboard and car seat.

Your mention of your adrenals made me look up when I first tried earthing, because I had a noticeable and almost sudden improvement in adrenal function a few years back. Turns out I started earthing six months prior to that event, but it wasn't the only thing that changed in that time so it's not a sole factor.

@MastBCrazy's antenna theory may be salient. I'm sensitive to at least some frequencies of EM radiation, with symptoms that are different to those caused by other kinds of insult. Wifi and mobile phones are irritants for me in small doses and probably explain why being in major population centres knocks me around so much. I rarely use wifi at home (and when I do my router is set to transmit at minimum power) and turn everything except the fridge off at the wall when I'm not using it.

I wonder if you might want to try another device that lets you regulate the amount of current you receive. Tapping into the mains hum of your power grid doesn't give you much control...If you are in a building and grounded to a socket the current is coming from the power grid.

Just to clarify how earthing products work through wall sockets, the power grid is not accessed. The earth pin is not involved in supplying power to appliances and is not connected to the power grid. The other two pins (known as active and neutral) are connected to the grid. The earth pin is wired to a grounding rod which outside many Australian dwellings can be seen poking out of the ground with a wire connected to it, usually around 10mm in diameter and placed near the fuse box. If the earth pin was connected to the grid you'd be at risk (or certainty) of electrocution from the earthing device, not to mention a good many appliances in your home, hence the requirement that mains wiring and socket installations be done by a licensed electrician.

Some earth connections are better than others. I checked the earth connections in all the sockets at my parents' house and found that there were two separate circuits, one of which was earthed better than the other. It is theoretically possible for stray currents to be induced in any conductor, as @MastBCrazy found in the earth circuit at their place. IIRC the sellers of earthing products say that using a dedicated grounding rod directly is more effective than using a wall socket, and the above reasons are why. I have used both wall sockets and dedicated rods extensively and find that using a dedicated rod is superior, but not to the extent that it's worth drilling holes in my house to make happen. @outdamnspot experiments you could try to see if the quality of the earth circuit in your home is a factor include comparing earthing through a wall socket with earthing directly to the ground, trying wall sockets in other buildings, and connecting your multimeter between a wall socket earth pin and a sink tap to see if there's any electrical activity (there shouldn't be).

"Regulating the amount of current you receive" isn't the easiest thing to control because the voltage difference (electrical potential or "force") between one's body and earth is typically very small (~1V in my case). @MastBCrazy just recommended the opposite (i.e. low impedance to maximise current flow). Rather than try to adjust this parameter I think it's simpler to use a low impedance setup and adjust the amount of time spent earthed.

 

[L'engle]

@moblet I'm well aware that the ground pin does not transmit the electrical power to appliances and is not part of the power grid in itself. It transmits stray current (electrical noise) from the power grid to ground and this is what you get with earthing.

Hip explained this in another thread:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...thing-cured-my-dysautonomia-pots.24992/page-7

Regulating amount of current used for electroconductive therapies is just as valid a parameter adjustment as length of time. It may not be feasible with an earthing mat but that is not what I was suggesting. A battery set-up would give you a higher voltage and a higher potential current. It's only a suggestion though, as this is a forum for expressing ideas.

 

[moblet]

@L'engle apologies and thanks - I don't follow everything here and wasn't aware of the parallel discussion.

 

[outdamnspot]

What happens if you go outside and sit or stand with your bare feet on the ground?

What happens when you take adrenal glandulars, etc.?

I tried earthing outside and had one day where I improved (may have been placebo), but didn't notice much the other days.

Adrenal glandulars would crash me further. I think my system was just way too toxic and overloaded to mount any further HPA response. I've had far more benefit re: adrenals from coffee enemas, which makes sense since they increase glutathione (I was reading Rich say that he believes the HPA issue in CFS is further upstream from the adrenals, and due to glutathione depletion), plus eliminate copper, toxins etc.

 

[outdamnspot]

I'm too fogged to really follow what you guys are saying re: stray currents and the like. I don't know if I'm sensitive to wi-fi or not, but if I am, it doesn't make sense that earthing would make me feel worse, does it?

Since detoxing is listed as a potential side-effect of Earthing, I am inclined to hope that that's why I feel worse, as it's the simplest explanation. But it can be frustrating when you're stuck in the midst of a new experience without any clear signs.

 

[moblet]

For my money this is a clear and promising sign that would make me determined to continue:

I sense it must be doing something because my body feels warmer and I am a little bit calmer/less angry.

 

[outdamnspot]

I wore the band around my ankle last night -- I slept really deeply, but ended up way oversleeping (12 hours). I feel rested, but really foggy. I hope this passes ..

 

[outdamnspot]

It's kind of remarkable, actually. I get an almost instantaneous effect from the earthing. I was feeling vaguely alert earlier (after 2 cups of coffee) and within minutes of wearing the band, I'm foggy and want to go back to sleep.