Calcium sources / milk problems - I need a milk-testing strategy!

[Sasha]

About three years ago, I cut milk from my diet and immediately became able to breathe through my nose while lying on my side - something I'd not been able to do for a long time. So I stuck with that, but in the meantime, had a bone scan and discovered I had borderline osteopenia (probably due to years on being house/bedbound).

I was advised to take supplementary calcium, which I did, in the form of calcium citrate. But then I read that it ends up in your arteries and raises your risk of heart attack (and recently, dementia). So I stopped and asked an NHS dietician for dietary calcium sources, but the main ones aren't much use for me because they trigger migraines.

So I thought I'd retry milk. I've now tried A2 milk (different kind of protein from A1 milk, which I haven't retried yet) and it gave me stomach pain and a nose so streaming that I had to stay up four hours past my bedtime before I could breath properly lying down again.

I take it that's an allergic response rather than an intolerance?

Wondering whether to try different milks now - A1 cow's milk, maybe buffalo milk, sheep's milk, goats', lactose-free...

Anything else I should try? Or am I going to react to all of it?

 

[Mrs Sowester]

I have similar problems with cow's milk produce but find goat's milk and cheese ok as long as I don't go too crazy. Buffalo mozzarella is good too.
Think I must have problems with cow's milk protein because I can't tolerate lacto-free either.

 

[Sidereal]

I also cannot eat dairy due to allergic/hypersensitivity reactions. I have to take a calcium supplement as a result but to reduce the risk of damage from it I combine it with vitamin K2 MK-4.

 

[Effi]

@Sasha Have you looked into non-dairy sources of calcium, like leafy greens?

Good sources include most milk products, most types of tofu, some dark green leafy cabbage family vegetables, turnip greens and canned fish such as salmon and sardines that include bones. Potential calcium sources include ice cream and most green leafy vegetables. Poor calcium sources include cottage cheese, all beans, some types of tofu, almonds, and sesame seeds. Using this system to identify calcium-rich food sources avoids the misuse of nutrient data when foods are listed simply by their calcium content.

Lack of calcium uptake can also be due to low vit.D levels.

 

[Sidereal]

A problem with leafy greens that they tend to be high in oxalates which bind to calcium making it less available and they also cause symptoms for some people like pain, interstitial cystitis and many other problems.

 

[Sasha]

I also cannot eat dairy due to allergic/hypersensitivity reactions. I have to take a calcium supplement as a result but to reduce the risk of damage from it I combine it with vitamin K2 MK-4.

That's interesting - do you have a reference on that?

I brought up the potential damage of Ca with the dietician but she hadn't even heard of the risk.

 

[Sasha]

@Sasha Have you looked into non-dairy sources of calcium, like leafy greens?


Lack of calcium uptake can also be due to low vit.D levels.

Hi Effi - I'm aware of all the other dietary sources but can't eat most of the high-calcium ones because they trigger migraines in me. Leafy greens don't contain enough calcium to make much difference.

 

[Sidereal]

That's interesting - do you have a reference on that?

I brought up the potential damage of Ca with the dietician but she hadn't even heard of the risk.

There is a voluminous literature on the internet about benefits of vitamin K2 in regulating calcium metabolism but the question is whether you buy into it or not. I don't have a reputable slam-dunk reference and I am not suggesting you take this, I am simply saying what I'm doing to overcome the problem of a very low calcium diet that I'm on.

 

[trishrhymes]

Hi Sasha, I've been off dairy foods for 25 years. In the early years I took extra calcium as tablets (self prescribed). Now that soya or other plant based 'milk' is available that is fortified with equivalent amounts of calcium, vitamin D etc as cows milk, I have been mostly relying on that. I haven't had my bone density tested for about 20 years, so have no idea whether I have a problem.

I decided in the last few years that I probably needed to supplement vitamin D and took tablets that also contained calcium for quite a while, then some that contained calcium and magnesium.

Recently I got some that were just Vit. D without the calcium, and I'm wondering whether it's coincidence or not, but I've noticed that my problem with frequent skipped/irregular heart beats has vanished.

I haven't yet tested by taking the calcium tablets again, but intend to to see whether my heart starts skipping all over the place again. I wonder whether anyone else has observed this.

It could be unrelated to the calcium - I've had other health related changes at the same time, so it's hard to tell what is causing what.

 

[Sasha]

As far as I can see, there should be no difference between taking calcium-fortified foods and a calcium supplement.

 

[trishrhymes]

As far as I can see, there should be no difference between taking calcium-fortified foods and a calcium supplement.

I agree, Sasha, but I suspect I was getting too much calcium with the supplements on top of the fortified food, so may have upset the salts balance. It's a mystery.

 

[Mary]

I was advised to take supplementary calcium, which I did, in the form of calcium citrate. But then I read that it ends up in your arteries and raises your risk of heart attack (and recently, dementia)

I think it's just excess calcium that ends up in your arteries, not calcium per se. I don't drink milk either due to allergies, and have been taking supplemental calcium for over 20 years - some 4 or 5 years ago I had a complete heart workup and my arteries were completely clear. (I also don't eat sugar, or junk) I also take a fair amount of magnesium, and vitamin D3.

I was taking Rainbow Light food-based calcium which I think is a pretty good product for quite awhile. And then switched to something else, I forget why and my nails became very weak, breaking left and right, and then I cracked a couple of ribs (arghh!) doing something not too strenuous, and finally realized I had to get on a good product. I started taking Bone-Up by Jarrow - someone on this board recommended it, and it is the kind recommended by my IM doctor: https://www.amazon.com/Jarrow-Formu...t_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=PYPXNC0J7H53J4PCGFW1

I've been taking Bone-Up for about 3 months. It's a little pricey but my nail strength is coming back, which I assume is a reflection of my bones too. It has vitamin K2 in the form of MK7 which is supposed to be the best kind: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/10/12/vitamin-k2-benefits.aspx

My IM doctor also recommended I take strontium, which I'm going to start.

 

[Sasha]

Thanks, @Mary.

I must admit that I don't have any biological knowledge and don't know how to judge all the info about what form of calcium to take, and in conjunction with what.

Food-based calcium sounds interesting, though.

Reassuring about your arteries!

 

[Sasha]

Can't find info on how that calcium is actually food-based. Can anyone?

 

[Mary]

Can't find info on how that calcium is actually food-based. Can anyone?

Good question Sasha! I never even looked into this, just assumed from the name the calcium was from food ...

 

[Mij]

@Sasha for the last several years I woke up with puffy eyes and discovered that I may have a problem with cow's milk, so I switched to goat cheese to get my calcium. I no longer have puffy eyes or stuffy nose in the mornings.

I also take a calcium supplement with MK 7.

 

[ahmo]

GAPS diet includes yogurt that's fermented 24 hours. Yogurt is extremely simple to make. The 24 hour fermentation is to eliminate all the lactose.
Also, bone broth is very rich in calcium and other minerals. Also very simple: bones + water + salt + heat. Vinegar helps leach out the minerals.

 

[CCC]

I've not been able to drink cows milk my whole life - for respiratory/sinus reasons. I'm now the only one in my family without osteoporosis or osteopaenia.

Things that have worked for me:

• raw goats milk when I was young (until we moved away from the supplier)
• powdered soy milk - because the liquid stuff wasn't available in the 1970s
• powdered Diploma cows milk - for some reason it was okay when no other cows milk was
  
• lots of greens when I left home (an unreasonable quantity, really) - vitamin K, not that I knew it then
  
• sesame seed products - halva/tahini
• calcium supplementation occasionally - I was never very good with it
• cheeses made from non-cows milk occasionally (very expensive)
  
• an outdoor job - vitamin D

My son (the reason I'm on this forum) is now lactose intolerant and he drinks lactose free milk. That works for him. He can tolerate sheeps milk yoghurt, too.

Keep experimenting until you find something that works.

The other thing with milk is that it's one of the main sources of B2 in the western diet. There was a UK study some time ago that observation a linear correlation between milk intake and B2 status. If you cut out milk, you need to look at your B2 intake too.

 

[Sasha]

GAPS diet includes yogurt that's fermented 24 hours. Yogurt is extremely simple to make. The 24 hour fermentation is to eliminate all the lactose.
Also, bone broth is very rich in calcium and other minerals. Also very simple: bones + water + salt + heat. Vinegar helps leach out the minerals.

Can't have any of that lot for migraine reasons, alas.

 

[CCC]

Can't have any of that lot for migraine reasons, alas.

By some coincidence, I'm on the B2 thread.

You might already know this, but prophylactic B2 does reduce the incidence of migraine. If you haven't been drinking milk, you might have B2 issues. B2 massively affects vitamin D stuff (uptake/processing?), which then affects calcium stuff.

One of our early doctors took my son of milk altogether as a 'just in case'. The result is that he lost the enzyme to digest the lactose and is now lactose intolerant. It possibly caused a severe B2 deficiency - although he was probably already in trouble.