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Views on B12--Greg (B12 oils) view vs Rich Van's view--Thoughts?

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
@Johnmac My husband had the strangest skin eruptions on scalp and face when taking Red Bull 2-3x weekly about 1.5 years ago. They have nothing to do with acne, pimples, furunculosis or eczema - nothing that I had seen before, but exactly like Freddd describes. Also taking B vits messes up with his immune system and he develops breathing infections. To me this discussion about B vits interfering with microbiota activity makes total sense.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
@Johnmac About psoriasis I have also been reading people saying that Gamma-linolenic acid (GLA in Borage Oil used mostly for eczema) greatly helps. This oil also stimulates B6 metabolism (GLA is processed by B6) so one could expect better insulin sensitivity from it.
 
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CCC

Senior Member
Messages
457
Update on the B-group oils: probably too much B3 for us. It caused massive folate needs and I had to stop slurping it on.

The only upside was we ran out of mfolate. Before the next order arrived from iherb, we were forced to try folinic from the supplement cache. Taking that with cheap B2 has given us a mini breakthrough. It has released us from sublingual FMN and reduced the sublingual AB12 demand (the B12 oil is now enough).
 

CCC

Senior Member
Messages
457
@CCC
What do you mean exactly by a massive folate needs?
Is there someone who prefers the B12 ice than the Adeno/Methyl here?

By massive, we were taking five or six or more of the LE methylfolate tablets a day. They supposedly have 5mg of methylfolate per pill (they never felt like more than about 3 or 4, or so I'm told).

We haven't tried the B12 ice, but I know I've seen a few who have tried it.
 

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
I just use a Geratherm thermometer, Kath - you can get them on Amazon. Much more reliable than digital, I find. They're similar to using the old-fashioned mercury one, without the mercury (I couldn't bear to have a mercury one in the house - imagine dropping it and breaking it on your bathroom tiles...)
Yep, adrenal pain is an old familiar. I used to feel very tender in the lower back above the kidneys, even if I lay flat it could hurt a bit. Turning in bed could be agony. I got the flank pain (in the left side radiating down to hip and even down leg - like sciatica) but a hydrocortisone doses would make it go away in a few hours. I haven't had it for a while now - fingers crossed.

Your heart problem could possibly be due to the adrenals, like you say - as you know the adrenals produce mineralocorticoids like aldosterone - especially important for fluid and electrolyte balance, and as Greg said - when we start using b12 without enough b2 in our system, we get flooded with adrenalin and this triggers massive aldosterone dumping into the bloodstream, which in turn lowers potassium. The reason is because our adrenals don't work properly after years of b12 deficiency and so they don't make enough adrenalin (or cortisol if it goes on long enough). So there are tons of adrenalin precursors hanging around which get triggered when b12 is added. This is still happening to me, but nothing like as bad. So I'm not using such huge amounts of potassium anymore. And I don't need hydrocortisone to suppress huge adrenalin surges now either.

Things get dicey when estrogen is rising though (blocks my thyroid and cortisol hormones). Do you find that? Some say the b12 makes their estrogen and testosterone rise hugely (men too/testoserone). Greg says lots of things will fire up in the body and things will be in a state of havoc for a while. I would do anything for a bit of stability, but I'm very glad that things are 'firing up' so to speak :)

You mentioned the b group oil above, I think. I just answered @dogged_days re what Greg told me about it being enough to cover the oral b complex needs. We still need the B12 and 5MTHF too though. I use two sprays of the b12 oil daily and one spray of the b group oil (by the way @dogged_days, it has Ado in it - maybe you know already) - Greg told me it has 0.5mg Ado instead of the 0.65mg (.75?) per spray in the Meb12/Ado mix so it's a good one to start with for me. He said it might be easier for me because I find Ado a bit hard to take, but I will soon get the Meb12/Ado mix I think. Are you using that one now, Kath?

This is me!

I received my oils a few weeks ago. One week after I exercised for the first time in 14 years. I was already have breathing issues.

Due to the fact high dose hydroxy had worked for me before, I went to town using 5, 6 sprays right away.
3 days later bang, I was horrible. Chest pain worse, racing heart, immense fatigue, tingling in hands. Took a couple of days off, tried mixed B vits again, within MINUTES, literally about 4 minutes my arms went dead, floppy. Terrifying.

Right now my biceps are completely fatigued just writing on my laptop. In the last 14 months I have used Idebenone, and not had any muscle fatigue whilst doing normal stuff in the house. Now it has stopped working, I have no idea why?

The exercise and B Vits have totally messed me up.
 

Victronix

Senior Member
Messages
418
Location
California
high dose hydroxy had worked for me before, I went to town using 5, 6 sprays right away

The better way to do the B vitamins is low and slow, gradually build up. A lot of people on here get screwed up by rushing in with high dosages. While some people are okay with that, it should not be the standard. As far as I know, there is no special benefit to rushing high dosages, and greatly increased blowback risk.

I can see why, if it worked before, one would do it again, but the goal should be to carefully test and increase supplements. Stopping suddenly can create horrible depression and bizarre outcomes, depending on what deficiencies or blockages you have. The best way to avoid that is take everything low and slow, gradual.

Sorry about your experience. I know all too well the experience of "terrifying". Some drugs also do stop working with hormone changes, like for women with perimenopause -- things can go haywire, and something like a sleep aid can suddenly have an opposite effect.

I have to avoid any B6, methyl folate or folic acid in B mixtures, so I get all the other Bs and take small amounts of them -- B6 and methyl folate will cause me to have a meltdown in various ways. So it could be one or two things in a B mixture.
 

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
This is me!

I received my oils a few weeks ago. One week after I exercised for the first time in 14 years. I was already have breathing issues.

Due to the fact high dose hydroxy had worked for me before, I went to town using 5, 6 sprays right away.
3 days later bang, I was horrible. Chest pain worse, racing heart, immense fatigue, tingling in hands. Took a couple of days off, tried mixed B vits again, within MINUTES, literally about 4 minutes my arms went dead, floppy. Terrifying.

Right now my biceps are completely fatigued just writing on my laptop. In the last 14 months I have used Idebenone, and not had any muscle fatigue whilst doing normal stuff in the house. Now it has stopped working, I have no idea why?

The exercise and B Vits have totally messed me up.

IMO you should email Greg & ask him what's happening. He has worked thru scenarios like this with many people.
 

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
high dose hydroxy had worked for me before, I went to town using 5, 6 sprays right away

The better way to do the B vitamins is low and slow, gradually build up. A lot of people on here get screwed up by rushing in with high dosages. While some people are okay with that, it should not be the standard. As far as I know, there is no special benefit to rushing high dosages, and greatly increased blowback risk.

I can see why, if it worked before, one would do it again, but the goal should be to carefully test and increase supplements. Stopping suddenly can create horrible depression and bizarre outcomes, depending on what deficiencies or blockages you have. The best way to avoid that is take everything low and slow, gradual.

Sorry about your experience. I know all too well the experience of "terrifying". Some drugs also do stop working with hormone changes, like for women with perimenopause -- things can go haywire, and something like a sleep aid can suddenly have an opposite effect.

I have to avoid any B6, methyl folate or folic acid in B mixtures, so I get all the other Bs and take small amounts of them -- B6 and methyl folate will cause me to have a meltdown in various ways. So it could be one or two things in a B mixture.

Absolutely.
 

gettinbetter

Senior Member
Messages
278
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
PS @Kathevans Thanks for Lipsosmal C suggestion etc. I've tried those other things with not much success, though never the Liposomal C. Do you have a link for it or do you make it yourself? (I've heard of others doing this)
This is the first time I have heard liposomal vit c hypes someone other than myself a small amount will hype me for a day
Anyone know why this is ?
Thanks