Need help with stimulants

[heapsreal]

@redaxe everyone responds differently but my experience using low doses mostly like 75mg. Using it continuously it lost its effects quickly but using at as needed it seemed to help with energy and focus. The last few times i used it i had minimal positive effects.

Saying all that its cheap enough to have a crack at it. It might be suited for you.

My current as needed 'supplementation' is 50mg modafinil or 5 to 10mg hc, which i find good for helping energy and improving cognitive effects.

 

[Stretched]

.... This drug appears to get the brain to release more norepinephrine and dopamine as well as inhibiting reuptake but it also shares characteristics with stimulants. ... .

I'm curious about the converse. If one were looking to [I]increase reuptake[/I] of norepinephrine and/or dopamine what substances/drugs would work? Is there a single medication, eg OTC or Rx? Thanks.

 

[redaxe]

There's plenty of choline inhibitors - but probably not what you're looking for
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticholinergic

But perhaps not much else
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuptake_enhancer

Ketamine acts as a NMDA receptor antagonist although it's also a reuptake inhibitor of dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine. This one is interesting though - Ketamine has had some interest lately as an acute/immediate treatment for serious depression and was also used an CFS/ME instant remission treatment.
Good luck trying to get access to it though.

You're best bet might be N-Acetyl Cysteine
This is a well known glutamate modulator and possibly can raise glutathione - there's enough research to demonstrate its value to act on it's own in treating a range of depressive & pyschiatric disorders - as well as an adjunct to other drugs.

It seems to work by regulating glutamate - thus having a calming effect but without being a sedative. It appears to stop glutamate in areas of the brain where there is too much stimulation - apparently this leads to neurotoxicity and eventually the death of neurons - perhaps this is why people that have been depressed for many years struggle to recover and don't get adequate outcomes from most drugs. Anti-depressants have largely ignored the role of glutamate so far.

A lot of chronic health conditions are supposedly linked to low glutathione too so there may be some secondary benefit there too.
The problem is that a lot of alternative health groups have jumped on NAC so I'm not sure if the science will live up to the hype - so now every snake oil salesman is selling glutathione claiming its a miracle cure for everything.

Some on these boards say NAC helps them sleep. There's heaps on pubmed about this stuff and even more on the web of people claiming it cured all sorts of 'behavioral disorders' like maladaptive daydreaming, obsessive compulsive disorder, anxiety, depression, bi-polar depression, addictions - particularly gambling, reducing cigarette cravings, hair pulling etc....
That leads me to think that the mechanism of action is quite broad but also precise. It seems to alleviate the cravings associated with multiple behavioral disorders and addictions yet it doesn't appear to have any significant negative side-effects. So its mechanism of action is probably quite gentle and may just takes the edge of some of the toxicity caused by excess glutamate.

 

[Stretched]

Thanks, and the Wiki refs are interesting.

You're right, I'm searching around outside the box - looking for possible biochemical/combos that might significantly reduce the prodution or affects of noradrenaline and other systemic stimulants. ('Looks like the SSRE's are more conceptual than ready for prime time,)

'Appreciate the input and analyses, throughout.

 

[redaxe]

Thanks, and the Wiki refs are interesting.

You're right, I'm searching around outside the box - looking for possible biochemical/combos that might significantly reduce the prodution or affects of noradrenaline and other systemic stimulants. ('Looks like the SSRE's are more conceptual than ready for prime time,)

'Appreciate the input and analyses, throughout.

Oh and the other drug that is popular for modulating some of the brain signalling is Low Dose Naltrexone - I haven't used this but it seems to be one of the go-to treatments people recommend here.

 

[Stretched]

@redaxe. Naltrexone has been on my list for awhile. It's next - I'll order over the weekend.
(Just finishing up high dose D-3 and Pregnelonone and DHEA.)

Really, the most needed is non-rx help with sleep. I just read of some doc having success with NAC, 50mg-300mg
with 4 oz of grape juice, 30" prior to bed. I did 50% of that last night and was awake 50% of allocated sleep time=&
I'll double down tonight... .

Thanks again.

 

[Mush]

@Eeyore, @Heapsreal

Do you have any thoughts on Wellbutrin? It's classed with antidepressants but it's mode of action is actually quite a bit different - it's more said to treat atypical depression (which is very different from major depression in that the main symptoms are oversleeping and muscle weakness/low energy rather than constant sadness). That said the label atypical depression obviously reveals our poor understanding of what the underlying pathology is - but there is some symptom overlap between this and ME/CFS (again - oversleeping, insomnia, muscle weakness - obviously without the exertion induced crashes).

There is evidence that bupropion induces the release of norepinephrine and dopamine in addition to inhibiting their reuptake, similarly to other cathinoneslike amfepramone (diethylpropion).[16][17] Chemically, bupropion belongs to the class of aminoketones and is similar in structure to stimulants such as cathinone and amfepramone, and to phenethylamines in general

This drug appears to get the brain to release more norepinephrine and dopamine as well as inhibiting reuptake but it also shares characteristics with stimulants.

Wellbutrin is popular because it is said to cause less side-effects than other drugs - notably no sexual dysfunction.

In the brain norepinephrine increases arousal and alertness, promotes vigilance, enhances formation and retrieval of memory, and focuses attention; it also increases restlessness and anxiety. In the rest of the body, norepinephrine increases heart rate and blood pressure, triggers the release of glucose from energy stores, increases blood flow toskeletal muscle, reduces blood flow to the gastrointestinal system, and promotes voiding of the bladder and large intestines.

I know this is quite an old post but just in case anyone is reading through them like I am. Please be really careful with this drug, I know everyone is different but it caused me to have a grand mal seizure and lose my drivers licence for a year!

 

[Stretched]

<<However the biggest problem...
Does anyone have any suggestions with this? I don't like the idea of taking heavy stimulants habitually but I really want to achieve more this year so I've decided it's worth the risk.>>

...
In that regard, 'Hip' wrote a very comprehensive piece in that thread dealing with the efficacy of different supplements related to some of the likely implications of your search. I would venture an opinion she could answer your query and offer other considerations that lie between the lines, and offer

@Hip. I have meaning to correct this typo, which mis-gendered Hip. 'Public apologies - Hip is a pointer, not a setter,~)