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BH4 and the Genetics of ME/CFS

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
The weird thing is that drugs are used off label
all the time but Kuvan is near next to impossible to get. I got a prescription and the rep told my doctor that she couldn't prescribe it for BH4 deficiency. That's a labeled use in the EU just not here due to the orphan status. It made my doctor so leery that she took the script back. And it used to be available at every compounding pharmacy. It's not like it is particularly dangerous or anything.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,858
I am not sure of the price of BH4 before it became an orphan drug, but I know that the Ecological Formulas brand of BH4 supplement currently costs $60 for 2.5 mg x 60 capsules, and that works out to $40 per 100 mg, which is the same as Kuvan, which is $40 for each 100 mg capsule.

So the supplement version of BH4 appears to be the same price as the pharmaceutical version.

And the BH4 supplied by Schircks Laboratories works out to $40 per 100 mg as well, according to this post.



I can see how orphan drug status might potentially be abused, but the idea is that orphan drug status only applies to rare diseases or conditions, so it's not clear to me how pharmaceutical companies could get around those rules.
 
Messages
11
Can someone please tell me if organix acid test (OAT TEST) can tell you if you have methylation issues? And can someone here look at my oat test because it says I'm low in vit c, coenzyme 10, and vit b2 (riboflavin). Does this mean anything? Also, I have very high serotonin and gut issues too. If anyone can look please help me and I'll post it or send to you, thanks!! I'm alittle lost....
 

heyitisjustin

Senior Member
Messages
162
*** offtopic if someone will try BH4/Kuvan, i have it for sale. It did nothing for me ... (Its a shame).
But i have to pay my own risk at insurance! I have used 6 tablets of it. The rest i have it at home so if someone is looking for buying it... You can contact me :)

Do you still have the Kuvan? I would like to try BH4 but it is quite expensive.
 

kel88

Senior Member
Messages
125
Hi Justin,

Yes i have!
If you have intereting you can send me a PM! :)
I couldnt take it because of to many side effects :(
 

kyzcreig

Senior Member
Messages
141
Location
Houston
Messages
2
Old thread, I know, but there's anecdotal evidence that hydroxocobalamin may be superior to methylcobalamin for increasing BH4 for some people.

It's discussed on a few posts on this longecity thread, but the idea is that active methylB12 pushes folate towards the methylation pathway instead of BH4 production (apparently a Rich Van Konynenburg theory), so if BH4 is your main issue then an unmethylated form of B12 may be better to ensure folate is available for BH4.

I appreciate not everyone can ditch methylB12, but personally, I've found switching to hydroxocobalamin helped me regain about 80% of the benefits I experienced during the folate startup honeymoon (that I lost after a week or two), and I'm fairly certain that it's related to BH4 production.

Just wanted to share in case anyone's in the same boat.
 

kyzcreig

Senior Member
Messages
141
Location
Houston
Both BH4 and hydroxocobalamin are potent nitrogen species scavengers e.g. ONOO- and NO, if you are familiar with Martin Pall's work. Inflammatory cytokines can cause excessive NO production. I would wonder how you do on anti-inflammatories like Cinnamon, Curcumin, Boswelia.
 

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
Both BH4 and hydroxocobalamin are potent nitrogen species scavengers e.g. ONOO- and NO, if you are familiar with Martin Pall's work. Inflammatory cytokines can cause excessive NO production. I would wonder how you do on anti-inflammatories like Cinnamon, Curcumin, Boswelia.

I do not believe NO is the issue per say. If one has low BH4 they will produce peroxynitrite. I believe this is the issue in chronic disease.
 
Messages
5
NEW POLL: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/bh4-gch1-question.35140/

I've been doing a lot of research on BH4 these last few months to see how it fits in with ME/CFS. It's turned out to be a rich vein to mine, and I'm convinced it's an important part of our pathophysiology. I've personally found BH4 supplementation to be incredibly helpful and so have a lot of my friends. I'm now working on getting a grant to do a pilot study on BH4.

BH4%20pathways.jpg


GCH1 is the gene that encodes the first rate-limiting step for synthesizing new BH4. If you have a double mutation of GCH1 you make about 80% less BH4 and get a form of PKU. If you have a single mutation you may get dystonia, but you will definitely make less BH4: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18598896.

When I started taking BH4 it was a revelation. I found out what it meant to be "normal" instead of insanely moody - and nearly suicidal when I was doing the Cutler protocol. That first dose completely brought me back to good in 30 minutes. Besides depression, BH4 alleviates anxiety, improves concentration and even helps me to prevent crashes. I took BH4 during an exercise stress test and failed to crash. Bad news for my SSDI chances but potentially great news for PWCs.

MTHFR SNPs alter the folate cycle that turns the BH4 salvage pathway. If you have this mutation, and you feel better on L-5MTHF, chances are you are using the additional BH4 to make serotonin and dopamine. That's because BH4 is an essential cofactor for making all of the monoamines. Without enough BH4, you will not only be low in serotonin and dopamine, but also melatonin, norepinephrine and adrenaline.

BH4 also helps you make NO. If you are low in BH4, you will make NO, SOD and ONOO- or nitric oxide, superoxide and peroxynitrite. When you make too much peroxynitrite it oxidizes most of your BH4. That leads to a vicious cycle called NOS uncoupling which makes you chronically ill. Peroxynitrite passes through cell walls and selectively destroys mitochondria. It also overactivates your sympathetic nervous system which causes post-exertional malaise.

When you have both a GCH1 SNP and an MTHFR SNP you get double trouble. You don't make enough BH4 and you don't recycle it efficiently. Add to the mix other methylation defects (the cycles are interlinked), high viral titres, wounds, colds and flus then you really start to feel bad. Fatigue, brain fog, insomnia and depression are just a few of the possibilities.

Add aluminum poisoning to the mix and your life really goes down the tubes. Besides replacing iron in the body, aluminum blocks the recycling of BH4. Aluminum is routinely added to our food, water, hygiene products and medicines. According to a group of toxicologists who just published a report last month, the worst source of aluminum intoxication is vaccines.

Where You Come In

Please look at your 23andme results and let me know if you have the GCH1 SNP. You can also run your raw data through Promethease and search the report. Then, if you would be so kind as to post your results and vote in this poll, I would really appreciate it. If you would also post your MTHFR status that would be doubly great.

Mimi


Instructions for using Promethease to find out if you have a GCH1 mutation:

1) Get your 23andme.com test done. It costs only $99. If you do two people at once there may be a discount.

2) Once you get notified that your results are available, go to www.promethease.com.

3) Read/Check all the boxes that say you agree.

4) Click the button to go to 23andme.com.

5) Login to your 23andme account.

6) Click the green button that says yes, grant access.

7) Click the blue button to Pay with Card. The analysis only costs $5.

8) Save it to your computer somewhere where you can find it. When I did it, it was a web page.

9) Open your Promethease report and click Show Everything in the upper right-hand corner.

10) Type Ctrl+F (hold down the Control key and press “F”). A search box will appear in the very upper right.

11) Type GCH1 into the box. If the page doesn’t scroll down, click the down arrow next to the search field.

If you have any mention of GCH1 in your report, the find function will take you right to it.

Mimi
Hi Mimi,
I have gs224 (gch1) and supposedly a variant for PKU according to Promethease.
I am also homozygous for:
SOD 2 , CBS C699T, COMT v, COMT h, NOS 3, MTHFD1, SLC19A1
Hetero for many Snps but will only list a few:
SOD 3, VDR BSM, VDR TAQ, NOS 2, MTHFR C677T, MTHFS, MTRR, AGT, AHCY, BHMT, CBS, DAO, FOLR2, FUT2, GAD1, GAMT, MAOB, PEMT,

I am very interested to find out where you got your bh4? Was it from a doctor? Did they give you any tests first and what were the names of the test?
I have not shown signs of Distonia but I have crushing fatigue, muscle jerks and feel like all my neurotransmitters are extremely low. I have many different symptoms with nothing showing up on traditional tests but I can hardly get out of bed. I started to see a ND but she doesn’t think much about the GCH1 mutations causing low bh4 (perhaps because she just doesn’t know enough about it). Not sure what tests I need to prove to my doctor that I need supplementation. Any advice? Thank you.