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Australian metabolomics study of young women

GreyOwl

Dx: strong belief system, avoidance, hypervigilant
Messages
266

Australian metabolomics study of young women
by ME news Australia
In Melbourne, Australia a study of 34 patients and 25 controls examined energy metabolism, chronic immune activation and oxidative stress issues within ME/CFS (Canadian Consensus Criteria definition) patients. It found significant differences in metabolites and proposed a new marker: overnight accumulation of allantoin in the urine.
https://meaustralia.net/2016/07/06/australian-metabolomics-study-of-young-women/
 

Never Give Up

Collecting improvements, until there's a cure.
Messages
971
https://meaustralia.files.wordpress...ways-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-patients.pdf

Very interesting.

All samples underwent metabolic profiling via 1D 1H Nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy and quantitated metabolites were assessed for significance. Blood glucose was elevated while blood lactate, urine pyruvate, and urine alanine were reduced indicating an inhibition of glycolysis that may potentially reduce the provision of adequate acetyl-CoA for the citric acid cycle. We propose that amino acids are being increas- ingly used to provide an adequate carbohydrate source for the
citric acid cycle. We suggest that this is via glutamate forming 2-oxoglutarate through an enzyme that deaminates it and subsequently elevates blood aspartate. Dysfunctional energy metabolism appears to have impacted creatinine and its elevation in urine suggests that it may be used as an alter- native for anaerobic ATP production within muscle. A de- crease in blood hypoxanthine and an increase in urine allantoin further suggest the elevation of reactive oxygen species in ME/CFS patients. These findings bring new in- formation to the research of energy metabolism, chronic immune activation and oxidative stress issues within ME/ CFS.

Maladaptive cellular respiration? I had no idea such a thing was possible. Very, very interesting. Can't wait to see what Dr. Naviaux's research turned up.
 

Gijs

Senior Member
Messages
690
As Always we probably never hear anything about this 'exiting' research again. Everytime they may have found a new possible marker.
 

GreyOwl

Dx: strong belief system, avoidance, hypervigilant
Messages
266
As Always we probably never hear anything about this 'exiting' research again. Everytime they may have found a new possible marker.
I disagree. I think there is a commonality coming out of current research internationally which makes me hopeful that the mechanisms in this complicated illness will soon be understood. I think that it has taken a long time to get to here because of the bizarre concerted efforts to prevent research, but I really am hopeful that what I am seeing now will turn out to be a watershed moment in this history.
 

Gijs

Senior Member
Messages
690
I disagree. I think there is a commonality coming out of current research internationally which makes me hopeful that the mechanisms in this complicated illness will soon be understood. I think that it has taken a long time to get to here because of the bizarre concerted efforts to prevent research, but I really am hopeful that what I am seeing now will turn out to be a watershed moment in this history.

Everything they found in ME (CCC) patiënts is the result of oxygen deficiency in the cells (problem microbloodflow and red blood cell shapes).
 

Ben H

OMF Volunteer Correspondent
Messages
1,131
Location
U.K.
Thanks for posting @GreyOwl. Good find. Hadn't seen this. Taking an in depth look now.


B
 
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GreyOwl

Dx: strong belief system, avoidance, hypervigilant
Messages
266
@Never Give Up quoted one of the studies on which the study in the OP was based. The study in the OP is new.

ETA: no, I am wrong. The study in the OP was the same study @Never Give Up quoted, and the same study discussed here in another thread. As you were.
 

Ben H

OMF Volunteer Correspondent
Messages
1,131
Location
U.K.
Lol. I read this back at the time but had forgotten it completely. I just saw a metabolic study in Australia that I assumed was recent and thus I had missed. Damn fog :mad::rofl::rolleyes:

This was what stuck out for me back then:

"Mitochondrial dysfunction has been suggested as a po- tential cause of depleted ATP and fatigue-like symptoms (Filler et al. 2014). However, in our study the quantitation of blood glycolytic metabolites revealed that glycolysis inhibition is occurring implying a lower level of acetyl- CoA production."

I also thought it was unusual that it was female only. Not necessarily bad, just unusual (I realise the reasons for this).

B
 

Biarritz13

Senior Member
Messages
699
Location
France
I can be wrong but this study is maybe related to why someone here has had a huge lift of PEM by taking amino acids. I think it was @Mary
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
I also thought it was unusual that it was female only. Not necessarily bad, just unusual (I realise the reasons for this).
Its a smart move. Since this is only a pilot study they decided to decrease diversity as much as possible. Age and gender were restricted. To go to a larger study they will need to diversify the patient type though.

Please note, something that was important in their 90s research, that some of the findings were only found early morning, such as allantoin. I think the timing might be important. The chemistry may not be the same at different times of the day, which might create additional confounds.
 

Ben H

OMF Volunteer Correspondent
Messages
1,131
Location
U.K.
Its a smart move. Since this is only a pilot study they decided to decrease diversity as much as possible. Age and gender were restricted. To go to a larger study they will need to diversify the patient type though.

Please note, something that was important in their 90s research, that some of the findings were only found early morning, such as allantoin. I think the timing might be important. The chemistry may not be the same at different times of the day, which might create additional confounds.

Yea it was a smart move. We just dont see that kind of 'drilling down' very often, thats all, certainly not in M.E research. Its usually very vague. Suprised me. It just cant be applied to other groups though, as it is so specific, which is fine, providing they follow up.



B
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,335
Location
Southern California
I can be wrong but this study is maybe related to why someone here has had a huge lift of PEM by taking amino acids. I think it was @Mary

Interesting - I'm sure you're referring to this statement in the article:

We propose that amino acids are being increasingly used to provide an adequate carbohydrate source for the
citric acid cycle.

FWIW, it wasn't amino acids per se which cut my PEM in half (from 2 days to 1), but branched chain amino acids. I still take them, afraid to stop! :eek:

Although I think the mechanism by which BCAAs help with PEM is different than cited above. Here are the articles which got me started on BCAAs:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/544S.full
http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=41341
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11310928
http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/Fword.htm

Anyways, I'm really glad to see this study!

And I really like your how you said this @GreyOwl - there is no sane explanation for how we have been ignored, sidelined, marginalized ad infinitum:

bizarre concerted efforts to prevent research,
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
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17,335
Location
Southern California
There is one thing puzzling to me about the study - it says that blood lactate was reduced. Isn't blood lactate what tends to be elevated in ME/CFS?
 

Ben H

OMF Volunteer Correspondent
Messages
1,131
Location
U.K.
Interesting - I'm sure you're referring to this statement in the article:



FWIW, it wasn't amino acids per se which cut my PEM in half (from 2 days to 1), but branched chain amino acids. I still take them, afraid to stop! :eek:

Although I think the mechanism by which BCAAs help with PEM is different than cited above. Here are the articles which got me started on BCAAs:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/544S.full
http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=41341
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11310928
http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/Fword.htm

Anyways, I'm really glad to see this study!

And I really like your how you said this @GreyOwl - there is no sane explanation for how we have been ignored, sidelined, marginalized ad infinitum:

Interesting, thanks Mary. I will read those links in a minute.

If not too much of a personal question (feel free not to answer), are you underweight at all since M.E/CFS?


B
 

Ben H

OMF Volunteer Correspondent
Messages
1,131
Location
U.K.
There is one thing puzzling to me about the study - it says that blood lactate was reduced. Isn't blood lactate what tends to be elevated in ME/CFS?

It can be both, or normal. Its part of the hetrogeniety of the disease and the different metabolomics for each of us. Davis recently pointed these issues out at the London conference where one patient had an issue with trytophan metabolism, another with biotin. There were differences between patients. The underlying take away is that our TCA and other metabolic pathways are not working properly, and they are fundamental for life.
 
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Mary

Moderator Resource
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17,335
Location
Southern California
If not too much of a personal question (feel free not to answer), are you underweight at all since M.E/CFS?

Not at all, I'm afraid! The opposite actually. I gained weight and then lost most of it excruciatingly slowly because of course my activity is so limited. I know some people with ME/CFS do lose weight or can't keep it on, but I don't have any such problem .....
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,335
Location
Southern California
Davis's recently pointed this out at the London conference where one patient had an issue with trytophan metabolism, another with biotin.

Thank you for this info. FWIW, at least one of the articles I linked above talks about a high tryptophan ratio to something else, I forget what, but tryptophan was involved.