Trudie Chalder to speak at Norwegian Research Seminar

[Esther12]

If you want a hand identifying problems with her talk/slides, I'd be happy to take a close look.

The uni wants to charge you for asking questions when they didn't want you to?

 

[Gingergrrl]

The uni wants to charge you for asking questions when they didn't want you to?

I know, this is mind boggling! Forgive the stupid question but is there a freedom of speech law in Norway? I get it if you had threatened the speaker or were violent but you just asked a question!!! Am hoping justice will prevail over this insanity and the police will realize they have better things to do with their time.

 

[me/cfs 27931]

Slide 5:
The belief that exercise should be avoided

I like to hear them speak about "beliefs", when their "theory" ignores all biomedical works that show an abnormal response to exercice, the 2 days CEPT, Julia Newton's work on cultivated cells and so much more.

They know a lot about "beliefs", they're experts. Intense daily training.

One could also point to the IOM report:

To replace ME/CFS, the committee proposes the name systemic exertion intolerance disease, or SEID. This name captures a central characteristic of the disease: the fact that exertion of any sort— physical, cognitive, or emotional—can adversely affect patients in many organ systems and in many aspects of their lives.

 

[Kalliope]

I am a bit confused... I did not attend the seminar, so don't know what really happened.

I heard there was booing, "liar" was called out during Chalder's speech, a cup got broken (and a glass door?) as this person was directed out from the seminar. Is that not true? Are the charges from the hospital just concerning someone asking a question out of order?

Anyone who attended who can describe what really happened?

 

[Marky90]

I am a bit confused... I did not attend the seminar, so don't know what really happened.

I heard there was booing, "liar" was called out during Chalder's speech, a cup got broken (and a glass door?) as this person was directed out from the seminar. Is that not true? Are the charges from the hospital just concerning someone asking a question out of order?

Anyone who attended who can describe what really happened?

Kalliope,
The following happened:

I interrupted about 30 min into the talk, asking something to the extent of "why don`t you mention the PACE-trial Chalder, which showed that neither CBT or GET works?".
Then 5-6 people approached me and asked me to leave, saying they would call the police.
I said "go ahead".
Seconds later a guy tried to manhandle me, I pushed him back and told him to f***k off
I told Chalder she should be ashamed of herselves for spreading misinformation to healtworkers and the like, on my way out.
In the entrance area (outside the conference room), i threw a coffee cup at the floor, and unfortunately the pieces accidentally ricocheted towards the bottom of the entrance glass door, which then partlybroke.
That is a separate charge, of which i of course will pay, but it was purely accidental. I don`t have the funds to go about wrecking things, I don`t even have the funds to compensate immediatly.
There was no booing, if it was; it was directed at me.

People are free to focus on broken coffee cups and broken glass, but it is nothing but a decoy from the real crime; the abandonment of thousands of lives, directed by the state, and Chalder et. al.
It`s so predictable every single time:
One of the psyhobabblers will now read this forum and tweet about a lunatic patient trying to kill Chalder, and was it not also talk of a bomb?
Then the psychobabblers will generalize the conclusion that all ME-patients are violent trolls, obsessed with the idea that they have a physical disease.
Furthermore they will poignantly ask "why all this hate directed at the people who are only trying to help"?, and they will shed a tear thinking about what martyrs they are.
The psychobabblers will then meet to hold hands and torchlights, reminding each other what a great job they are doing for ME/CFS.
They will subsequently again completely forget that their "research" does not objectively prove any efficiacy at all.
They will then generate more awesome ideas, like a randomized controlled trial on CBT through facebook chat, while the control group must watch 10 episodes of Glamour each day.

I didn`t find a fitting word for them in the oxford dictionary
But i found one in the urban dictionary,
bullshitter(s)
"Someone who lives and breathes bullshit.
Even the carbon dioxide that they exhale has bullshit."

We need Karl Pilkington

 

[A.B.]

Shame about the coffee cup. It makes it much easier to ignore your arguments.

 

[BurnA]

I interrupted about 30 min into the talk, saying something to the extent of "why don`t you mention the PACE-trial Chalder, which showed that neither CBT or GET works".
Then 5-6 people approached me and asked me to leave, saying they would call the police.
I said "go ahead".
Seconds later a guy tried to manhandle me, I pushed him back and told him to F***k off
I told Chalder she should be ashamed of herselves for spreading misinformation to healtworkers and the like, on my way out.

We need more of this and if a broken coffee cup helps get us in the press, all the better.

 

[Esther12]

Shame about the coffee cup. It makes it much easier to ignore your arguments.

Yeah - there's not really room for stuff like that if you're also arguing against powerful people, it'll just cause you trouble. The smashing of a coffee cup would be likely to undermine you in a situation like this, never mind if it does on to damage something else. Hopefully whatever legal process that it leads to won't be too much trouble.

 

[Marky90]

Iv`e been mostly stuck in bed for 2 years because of her toxic influence - I wont brush her feathers. Patients are angry for a reason, let them feel it.

I made a 30-page handout for everybody, if they won`t read it due me breaking a cup, then that`s not a "me-problem". It`s a logical fallacy to conclude that angry people don`t have good arguments.

Anyway, on the particular day I only had 1 hour of sleep, my ex had broken up 2 weeks ago, and I had no place to live while saving for rituximab. These are all circumstances that come into play, so cut me some slack. Might have played it more cool on another day, but I feel my response is perfectly valid anyway to be honest. The way I look at it, it wont come anything out of nothing. That has been the story of ME/CFS for decades.

 

[ScottTriGuy]

Shame about the coffee cup. It makes it much easier to ignore your arguments.

If the coffee cup was broken intentionally as a symbolic representation of the broken lives / bodies of ME patients and broken healthcare/research system, then it is very fitting for his arguments.

 

[Esther12]

so cut me some slack.

I will, but I've got to be honest: I don't think that they will.

Generally, people in positions of authority don't want to make it easy to challenge authority. I know it's hard, but we've got to expect that they'll use what they can against us rather than do their best to investigate whether we have any legitimate concerns about them.

 

[Marky90]

I will, but I've got to be honest: I don't think that they will.

Generally, people in positions of authority don't want to make it easy to challenge authority. I know it's hard, but we've got to expect that they'll use what they can against us rather than do their best to investigate whether we have any legitimate concerns about them.

No obviously they won`t, as they have pressed two separate charges..
These people at this particular center do not embrace biomedical research, they prefer psychological research. This is reflected in the fact that most of the employees are psychologists. They`re not likely to change their minds even if we find a biomarker, so patients need to actively create a fuzz, so that we in the long run may get the right professions hired at the "national center of competence on ME/CFS". At the moment they are not doing anything, not even research.

 

[Mrs Sowester]

It's a real shame about the cup, but understandable. I'd imagine your adrenalin must have been soaring sky high with all the build-up to the event, risen again at speaking out and then risen higher still in the face of people physically removing you from the room. I'd have been shaking like a leaf. You were probably in fight or flight mode - and you did both it seems.

I read an article about the activist who custard pied Rupert Murdock, “I had the most intense adrenaline rush of my life,” he says now. “I tried to think of an amazing, for-the-history-books kind of thing to say and it came out as something like, ‘You naughty billionaire.’ It was awful.”
Link to full article: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/28/activists-life-after-prison-charlie-gilmour
Sadly Jonnie Marbles lost the moral high ground when he pied Murdock, because his action was aggressive and Murdock, who is in his 80s, became the victim rather than the evil overlord we all know him to be...

I personally don't think our community can or should condone acts of criminal damage, they are counter productive, but I can understand how the heat of the moment, the pressure to do good for our community and the sheer frustration of your personal situation led to this incident getting a little out of hand. Your intentions were good you did amazingly getting the leaflets out there, thank you for trying and maybe the community should get together and get you an unbreakable coffee mug, just in case there's a next time!

 

[Asa]

Boston Tea Party. Oslo Coffee Cup…. Even Jesus (no matter he be seen as “real” or as a “fictional character”) lost his temper. (Honest) Buddhist monks, who spend years and years and years cultivating patience/love/understanding/compassion, etc. admit to still struggling with anger… Would a Frenchman be called out for smashing a coffee cup? Good Lord…

My two cents (as someone who doesn't have children but who is probably old enough to be your mother): Marky90, don't you dare waste energy worrying about this! You're human! If you wanna go around smashing coffee cups till you're 90, make it your MO and go for it - embrace it. If you regret expressing your anger in the manner you did, embrace that - and go forward. Fram.

"There's no way out but through." / "We must be willing to let go of the life we planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us." / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth

 

[Luther Blissett]

Marky90, I nominate you for a meme

 

[Marky90]

Marky90, I nominate you for a meme

View attachment 15890

Haha brilliant.

Forget about the coffee cup already lol!

 

[Valentijn]

Please, people. We must not diagnose the coffee cup as being broken. To (mis)quote Ms. Chalder herself:

... a conviction of a solely physical cause for failing to hold liquid is the single most consistent predictor of poor coffee retention. Beliefs are consequently probable decaffination-maintaining factors and targets for percolation interventions.

 

[TiredSam]

Forget about the coffee cup already lol!

You'll be lucky ...

 

[deboruth]

There are literally hundreds of papers already showing breakthroughs in understanding on biological basis -- dating back to 1986, when Caliguri at Dana Farber (Harvard's cancer institution) published with Anthony Komaroff et al on the low NK cytotoxicity in ME patients (aka cfs patients in the paper) at Incline Village, Nevada. These were just plain ignored by CDC and later the Brits. Before, though without high tech, you have all the Ramsay and other physicians' insightful report in England. And after... The point is the story needs to be made clear that the truth has been distorted for the benefit of the insurance industry (and public sector de facto insurers like DWP). No point in saying the Wessleyites are wrong unless you make clear who has paid them to be wrong and who benefits from keeping us ill and uncared for. Of course careers are also part of it, but that's universal.
Suggest you find a lawyer who does civil rights type work to accompany you to court. Suggest you apologize for the muscle spasm that caused you to lose control of the coffee cup while under pressure from the people harassing you before you start explaining that you were only trying to save lives by correcting misinformation. We need to get across more that these untruths are killing people -- millions missing.

 

[Cheshire]

Would a Frenchman be called out for smashing a coffee cup? Good Lord…

Oh my! Are we also reputed for smashing coffee cups?