Welcome to Phoenix Rising!
Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.
Hm. I'll have to do some more reading on this. If it's really supposed to be just as good as the sublingual B12, I might give it a try.
Hello All, newbie here. I have very low b12's and have been trying to raise for 5 years now. Tried methyl, hydrox, liquid, sublingual and patch - all intolerable -became agitated, anxious, increase in Gerd, etc. My problems also include thyroid as it was removed 30 years ago. 10 years ago when I began having Gerd placed on PPI - that started a down hill venture with a list of health struggles.
Finally I have been able to get stabilized for just under a year. I have communicated several times with Greg at b12oils and he has been very helpful with plenty of info and guidance. I just started on the methyl/adeno combo a couple of weeks ago and this is the first time I have been able to tolerate b12! Don't want to jinx myself but hope that the improvements continue. I definitely feel that it comes in slower into my system so I am able to tolerate easier than any other active form. I am taking it slow and unfortunately can only use a small amount of the squirt, so a lot of it goes to waste. However, I do notice a difference! Much more energy, more alert, better mood, and less anxiety. The big test will come when I test again which won't be for a month or 2.
Greg did also mention Se(in methylselenocysteine) which he said was important. I do take Lynch's B minus which seems to have sufficient B2 - I wonder tho whether transdermal is any better than the pills ? Greg didn't respond to that.
My challenge is converting enough T4 to T3 (hoping that this new Se) will help for that. No Iodine for me as I do have Hash's (although haven't tested for those levels yet).
Am hoping that the B12 will help me get off the small does of anti-depressant I was given for my thyroid. Had a very bad episode and CNS went completely out of whack. So just grateful that I am functioning again like a normal person.
This is a great forum, thanks for all the sharing of such great information. I only decided to try the oils from lurking around.
Best of health wishes to all.
This sounds like you are having an increased need for B6 (I see you mentioned B12, folate, B2 but no B6 - see the link in my sig citric acid cycle - and B6 is responsible for making magnesium work). Now be very careful with it because it increases serotonin and this isn't always a good thing. I suppose that taking it at the same amount as B2 is safe, but since I am +/+MAO-A I would take a little more of B2 than of B6.My sleeplessness might also relate to high glutamate in my diet, specifically the raw cabbage I’ve been grating into my salads at lunchtime—very high, I’ve read; and, sad to say, the wonderful bone broth I’ve been making and adding to my breakfast soup—this from the gelatin. Apparently hard for those with leaky blood/brain barriers and sensitivities to MSG to tolerate. @Gondwanaland. Greg’s recommendation to eat 3 Brazil nuts/day, to help convert thyroid T3 to T4 (I think it is) may, for someone with normal thyroid like me, hype up a gland that didn’t need hyping.
I apologize in advance for a long post, but issues always seem to overlap, these relating not just to the oils, but general methylation as well.
I continue to trial the B-12 Oils, the Basic MeB12 Oil, and I have had many an email conversation with Greg and learned a lot from him and this site.
When I use the oils, they are easy and terrific and mouth-saving, but if I use them more than one day in a row, something goes awry. Or perhaps over-stimulates. My sleep deteriorated badly over the past several days. The last two I used the oils and felt terrific during the day, but at night I pretty much stopped sleeping at all—even with bits of valium or Ambien, which I hate to use. I know @Johnmac has said some in his family had partially sleepless nights, and that he felt euphoric for the first week on the oils. I was undoubtedly somewhat euphoric, as I found myself washing the kitchen floor last night after spending two exhausting hours cooking. I believe @ahmo has also said the oils seem to be the equivalent of 10-15mg of MeB12 lozenges. Perhaps since I have only titrated up to 5mg MeB12 or so, I’m not ready for theconcentration the oils offer. Or, as Johnmac says, since they chug along for about 36 hours, maybe I ought to use them every other day, and/or scrape away half of the blob before rubbing it in.
I’d increased my B2 levels, something Greg advises, to about 60mg/day, and stopped MeB12 and Folate for about a week, though Greg didn’t say this was necessary. I just wanted to see exactly what the B2 was doing. It was clear that it helped with muscle tightness, particularly what I’ve been calling my tight face, though I now recognize this as nothing more than a continued neck muscle tightness from the back to the sides and front, very hard, very sore to the light press. It was also clear (I think!) from bowel issues, that I still needed Folate.
As I increased the B2, my potassium requirements increased as well. (Although I know some people’s decrease @Athene*) And when I added in the MeB12 and Folate, I noticed most of all that they had a much stronger effect than they had before, that by having the B2 as a base, I was actually getting or receiving the B12 and folate in a way that I hadn’t before. Good enough.
But potassium symptoms—the irregular heartbeats that do respond to K+ began to appear throughout the night. More at night than during the day, possibly because the body at rest does more healing work? I was up drinking about 300mg of Potassium gluconate in a big glass of water at least twice a night. Which meant that I was up to pee often. Of course, anticipating your heart going into irregular rhythms is no way to relax and go to sleep. So two questions:
1. Those of you who need potassium supplementation, how do you take it during the day? Do big doses in the day allow for the night to pass without supplementation? I’ve been drinking the concoction a half hour or more before a meal, thus arriving at the end of the meal ready to take my Folate (as per Fred’s dictate to take it an hour away from Folate). If I do this 3-5 x a day, no problem, but I can’t do it another 2x during the night. I’m getting that uncomfortable bolus at the base of my throat, that harbinger of GERD, or REFLUX.
2. If you take your potassium with your meals so that you can take more of it at a time (and the truth is, with adrenal and gut issues, aren’t we supposed to limit what we sip at a meal so that our stomach acid can become sufficient and heal us?), then when do you take magnesium? Or don’t you? Magnesium is one of the things I titrated up on a few years ago and it has been very helpful. It’s an antagonist to potassium, right? In fact, I was reading just the other day on another thread (http://forum.bulletproofexec.com/index.php?/topic/2078-bulletproof-magnesium-thread/), that low magnesium gave @mgk headaches and neck and shoulder pains. She also noticed that her magnesium needs increased with increasing B12 use. On the other hand, @Sherpa felt that what he perceived as potassium needs may have been a need for AdoB12, which @mgk had postulated--those muscle twitches some us get at night before or during sleep, which are one of the many side effects of MAO inhibitors, and very likely, our MAO+/+ snps, that we’re treating with B2.
As to the GERD/REFLUX issue, thanks @Johnmac for the Chris Kesseler link. It’s comprehensive and excellent. I’ve had a hard time in the past tolerating Betaine HCL. But who knows. Kessler apparently has a low dose supplement. There are 5-6 articles that begin here: http://chriskresser.com/what-everybody-ought-to-know-but-doesnt-about-heartburn-gerd/
My sleeplessness might also relate to high glutamate in my diet, specifically the raw cabbage I’ve been grating into my salads at lunchtime—very high, I’ve read; and, sad to say, the wonderful bone broth I’ve been making and adding to my breakfast soup—this from the gelatin. Apparently hard for those with leaky blood/brain barriers and sensitivities to MSG to tolerate. @Gondwanaland. Greg’s recommendation to eat 3 Brazil nuts/day, to help convert thyroid T3 to T4 (I think it is) may, for someone with normal thyroid like me, hype up a gland that didn’t need hyping.
I’ll just have to keep experimenting.
For the moment I feel a bit beat up.
This is very heartening, Athene. Thanks for this detailed response. I've found as I've gone down on the B2 and then raised it again recently to about 40-50mg/day (a combo of FMN from Source Naturals and my B-Minus Complex has 10mg in the half I take each day) that taking the B2 with dinner and even an hour or so before bed may be helping my sleep. Though I'm still nervous about actually saying that! Seven hours for three nights, amazing! I know just what you mean about staying awake all night, or getting no more than 3 or 4 hours. I regularly bargain with the universe for 5 hours. You know, at this point even an extra hour can make so much difference.I can now walk for 40mins per day without any after crash, and I am sleeping better - 7 hours the last three nights. This is from someone who regularly stayed awake all night long, or got by on 3 or 4 hours for years.
I get the weakness, as well as sore muscles and tendons. It's getting me to order some of the Methyl/Ado B12 Oils, which Greg said I could begin to titrate with a drop. I've got to find a way to get more of the DQ into my system.flaccid muscles and severe weakness
When I use the oils, they are easy and terrific and mouth-saving, but if I use them more than one day in a row, something goes awry. Or perhaps over-stimulates. My sleep deteriorated badly over the past several days. The last two I used the oils and felt terrific during the day, but at night I pretty much stopped sleeping at all—even with bits of valium or Ambien, which I hate to use.