beta blockers, could they be the cause of mast cell issues?

[maggioKurt]

Hi

About 8-9 months ago I started to develop food intolerances, which I later identified as mast cell problems. I havent been diagnosed yet.

I also have POTS and other heart related problems, which come from use of neuroleptics. Ive read elsewhere on the internet, that mast cell activation disorder, can happen as a result of these drugs.

So when I started getting POTS, I was put on a beta blocker, which didnt cause mast cell problems for a year. I was then switched to another beta blocker, and I guess I started having problems with food then. Im now reading that beta blockers are not advisable in MCAD, but can they cause it? Im hoping my doctor will let my try a calcium blocker instead.

Maybe some of you have tried a beta blocker and can comment on this, since I really dont think I can do without my beta blockers. If more than 6 hours pass without some beta blocker I start getting agitated and then the fast heart beat starts happening especially when I stand up. Then Im getting really anxious, almost panicking, until my beta blocker slows it down.

But the beta blockers also give me brain fog, which might be because of mast cell degranulation.

What do you guys think?

 

[Old Bones]

@maggioKurt Hi, and welcome to the forum. I, too, am a POTS/MCAD person. I can't provide an opinion on whether or not beta blockers contribute to brain fog due to mast cell degranulation. However, I am aware that MCAD patients are advised to be cautious with respect to beta blockers due to their histamine-releasing effect. That's one of the reasons I'm still deferring a decision to use beta blockers for POTS. Here are a couple of references, although it seems you have already researched this issue.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15710782

"In conclusion, MCA should be considered in patients with POTS presenting with flushing. These patients often present with a typical hyperadrenergic response, but beta-blockers should be used with great caution, if at all, and treatment directed against mast cell mediators may be required."

http://patient.info/doctor/mastocytosis-and-mast-cell-disorders

"Drugs to avoid

• Avoid alpha-blockers and cholinergic antagonists."

The fact that the beta blocker didn't cause mast cell problems for a year may merely mean it took that long for the level of histamine to build up in your system enough to cause noticeable symptoms. You're probably familiar with the "bucket theory" with respect to mast cell disorders. If not, an explanation can be found here (page 2):

http://www.allergynutrition.com/wp-...tamine-Intolerance-Useful-Information-1-2.pdf

 

[erin]

I am on Beta blockers for over 2 years now. I've not had any adverse affects so far. Palpitations are less now. They were very scary at the beginning. I can't imagine not having them now.

 

[Gingergrrl]

I wish I knew the answer to this and have been on a BB for POTS for exactly three years. Every time I try to taper off of it, my HR goes back to the 160's to 170's and my already very low QOL goes to zero. My MCAS doc, my cardio, my Endo, etc have all told me that I must stay on the BB and I take a very low dose compared to others.

If the BB did lead to MCAS, it took over two years to reach that point. I actually suspect I had sub-clinical MCAS life-long and something in March/April of 2015 pushed it over the edge. Am not sure why the BB would suddenly do this out of the blue. I was trying Valcyte at that time which gave me vertigo, akathesia, and horrible side effects and I wonder if the immune modulating effects pushed the MCAS into a severe, active state.

I was also exposed to very high levels of toxic mold/mycotoxins and am certain this added to the immune system/MCAS part of my illness. I have been completely away from mold for six months and nebulizing glutathione and my MCAS is dramatically better and I am still on the same dose of BB (Atenolol.)

Don't get me wrong, I would love to be off of the Atenolol and hope that the Neuro will discuss this issue with me at follow-up appt (to be determined, I don't yet know when this will be.) But there are few options and I did not tolerate a CCB at all. Only other option I know is Ivabradine which is fairly new to the US market and has no generic and contains food dyes that I would most likely be allergic to. Food dyes seem to increase my histamine levels more than anything else I've ever ingested.

 

[Sushi]

Don't get me wrong, I would love to be off of the Atenolol and hope that the Neuro will discuss this issue with me at follow-up appt

Another choice you might ask about is a very specific type of calcium channel blocker. One that many POTS patients do well with is verapamil. It also inhibits mast cell degranulation.

 

[maggioKurt]

Im going to ask my doctor for verapamil. My POTS actually started after a colonscopy without analgesic. Before that I only had a high heart rate with some "attacks", then when I got home from the hospital afterwards, the palpitations just wouldnt stop.

 

[Gingergrrl]

Another choice you might ask about is a very specific type of calcium channel blocker. One that many POTS patients do well with is verapamil. It also inhibits mast cell degranulation.

Thanks Sushi and I will look up Verapamil. The one CCB that I tried in 2014 that dropped my BP and caused me to vomit and almost faint was Diltiazem. I was immediately taken off of it and put back on the BB.

 

[SGR]

@Gingergrrl may I ask how you get the glutathione? Interesting that you don't tolerate food dye and I'm so sorry about your mold exposure - too many things in common! Lots of wonderful information here.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Gingergrrl may I ask how you get the glutathione? Interesting that you don't tolerate food dye and I'm so sorry about your mold exposure - too many things in common! Lots of wonderful information here.

I get it from Wellness Pharmacy in Birmingham, AL. They are wonderful and can answer any questions you have. It is prescribed by my mold doc.

 

[SGR]

Thank you so much @Gingergrrl, I will look into this.

 

[Jennifer J]

Curious how this is going for everyone. Beta blockers and mast cell. Any new info to share about it?

Doc wants me to take yet concerned cause somewhere along the line years ago I read that beta blockers shouldn't be taken if one experiences angioedema. Also dealing with lots of reactions to everything, no mast cell diagnosis cause my doctor uses a positive tryptase test result which I don't have.

I didn't do well when I tried a calcium blocker years ago. Will look into what has been written thus far in this thread. Thank you everyone for sharing.

 

[Learner1]

Curious how this is going for everyone. Beta blockers and mast cell. Any new info to share about it?

I see a well known ME/CFS specialist who has many patients with POTS and MCAS. He prescribed both meds for MCAS and propranolol then metoprolol for my POTS

Also dealing with lots of reactions to everything, no mast cell diagnosis cause my doctor uses a positive tryptase test result which I don't have.

Mast cell expert Theo Theoharides at Tufts says that many patients never have high tryptase. There are other mast cell chemicals that can be measured, like histamine, prostaglandin D2 or F2 and chromagranin A.

I didn't do well when I tried a calcium blocker years ago. Will look into what has been written thus far in this thread

A calcium channel.blovker almost killed me. Any med can affect any of us differently.

 

[Jennifer J]

Thank you @Learner1.

Sorry about the calcium blocker affect on you.

 

[Learner1]

Thank you @Learner1.

Sorry about the calcium blocker affect on you.

Me too!

 

[Violeta]

I see a well known ME/CFS specialist who has many patients with POTS and MCAS. He prescribed both meds for MCAS and propranolol then metoprolol for my POTS
Mast cell expert Theo Theoharides at Tufts says that many patients never have high tryptase. There are other mast cell chemicals that can be measured, like histamine, prostaglandin D2 or F2 and chromagranin A.
A calcium channel.blovker almost killed me. Any med can affect any of us differently.

I was just reading in a study that: "Contraction of the lymphatic collectors is initiated by an action potential complex. Efficient pumping depends on the propagation of the electrical impulse that is under the control of pacemaker cells. As with cardiac muscle, which is very similar to lymphatic smooth muscle, calcium influx is important for the pacemaker potential and, therefore, calcium channel antagonists may well cause peripheral edema by interfering with lymphatic pumping."

I don't take meds, but there are natural calcium channel blockers. This is really tricky. Sorry for your experience with calcium channel blockers.

Oh yikes, taurine is a calcium channel blocker!

 

[Learner1]

I don't take meds, but there are natural calcium channel blockers. This is really tricky. Sorry for your experience with calcium channel blockers.

Oh yikes, taurine is a calcium channel blocker!

I've been told that calcium is so ubiquitous to the body that we can't even taste it.... Manipulating calcium channels can get one into trouble, and is best done in consultation with a knowledgeable doctor.

"Voltage-gated calcium (Ca2+) channels are key transducers of membrane potential changes into intracellular Ca2+ transients that initiate many physiological events. There are ten members of the voltage-gated Ca2+ channel family in mammals, and they serve distinct roles in cellular signal transduction. The CaV1 subfamily initiates contraction, secretion, regulation of gene expression, integration of synaptic input in neurons, and synaptic transmission at ribbon synapses in specialized sensory cells. The CaV2 subfamily is primarily responsible for initiation of synaptic transmission at fast synapses. The CaV3 subfamily is important for repetitive firing of action potentials in rhythmically firing cells such as cardiac myocytes and thalamic neurons"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC3140680/

I think we need taurine...

Taurine is the master osmolyte in our bodies and regulates distribution of excitable ions (Na, K, Ca, Mg and Cl) to their appropriate sides of the cell membrane. It can become depleted by either low dietary intake and oxidative stress, which is common in ME/CFS. More on taurine benefits and risks here:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326714#benefits-and-risks