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Dr. David Tuller discusses the flaws of the PACE trial

Cheshire

Cheshire

Senior Member
Messages
1,129
the PACE trial, a research project that should investigate the effects of CBT and GET in CFS is at this moment famous for it's severe and obvious flaws. Nevertheless it was the basis for guidelines in many countries. But for how long? And how long can the Lancet uphold their support for this in scientific terms disastrous research project?
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There's no indication about when and where the shooting took place. Netherlands presentation of Forgotten Plague?
 
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Keela Too

Keela Too

Sally Burch
Messages
900
Location
N.Ireland
Ah.. thanks I saw a link to this earlier today... started to watch it and some-one called in. Then I couldn't find it again.

Will settle down now with a cuppa and watch. :)
 
alex3619

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Wonderful talk. I have been discussing the cult angle for years, I was pleased to hear the cult angle commented on. There were numerous other angles discussed that I approve of, but I am starting to forget them already. (Bad brain, bad. ) I may have to watch it again.

Its important to discuss the research and not individuals. I have long held that view. We can prove things about the research, including numerous flaws, but we usually cannot prove anything about individuals. It does not matter if we have suspicions and they might be true, what matters is what we can prove. Given there are so many things we can prove its much better to spend our time on that.
 
A.B.

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
Keela Too said:
I too thought the CBT/GET cult was a nice turn of phrase. And he's right, it is like a cult! :p
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A group of people that:
- Promise a return to good health if only patients are willing to work on their beliefs.
- Teach patients that they need a therapist to decide what to think, feel, and do.
- Won't let lack of objective improvement get in the way of their fantasies.
- Ignore criticism from outsiders.
- Fervently believe in some vaguely defined mind over matter stuff that nobody has ever proven.

PS: I forgot: they also seem more concerned about expanding their influence and power than actually doing the best for patients.

Yep. It resembles a cult.
 
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Cheshire

Cheshire

Senior Member
Messages
1,129
A.B. said:
A group of people that:
- Promise a return to good health if only patients are willing to work on their beliefs.
- Teach patients that they need a therapist to decide what to think, feel, and do.
- Won't let lack of objective improvement get in the way of their fantasies.
- Ignore criticism from outsiders.
- Fervently believe in some vaguely defined mind over matter stuff that nobody has ever proven.

Yep. It resembles a cult.
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And try to estrange supportive relatives from patients. Keep only those who are in favor of their "cure".
 
BurnA

BurnA

Senior Member
Messages
2,087
Comments section in you tube is looking very bare......maybe some people would like to say something ?
 
Cheshire

Cheshire

Senior Member
Messages
1,129
The video ends abruptly and the sound quality is not great but a professional recording is on the way!
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/705315456702402560

Thanks to Anil van der See and everyone involved in that event! Unfortunately, Anil was not well enough to attend the screening...

For those who are not on tweeter or FB (or missed it) he gave David Tuller this amazing T-shirt:

Ccko_PHVIAAkXrZ.jpg
 
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