The reason why the Dr. Lam "mega-dose vitamin C" approach works and other thoughts

[drob31]

I was contemplating why, in some circumstances, that people who follow Dr. Lam's protocol's seem to get better when they "repair their adrenal glands" with vitamin C. It seems to me that in some cases, vitamin C could actually be stimulating the immune system and helping to rid the body of the pathogen (virus, bacteria, parasite) that was causing HPA-axis dysfunction.

Another thought I had recently, is that many test negative for any number of autoimmune conditions, however their body is producing antibodies at a low level that fluctuates and the reason the antibodies aren't high enough for a positive is because they don't have enough B-cells to produce antibodies. This could expain the phenomena of "seronegativity" in some cases. Stimulating the immune system in these scenario's would explain why symptoms increase when more B-cells are created to produce auto antibodies.

Thoughts?

 

[Ema]

Vit C also stimulates BH4...and can help with collagen synthesis which may be helpful for those of us with EDS.

And it helps to neutralize free radicals which protects mitochondria and helps to reduce systemic inflammation and it acts as a natural antihistamine for those of us with mast cell issues.

So it's probably a mixture of reasons why Vit C can help...

 

[drob31]

Vit C also stimulates BH4...and can help with collagen synthesis which may be helpful for those of us with EDS.

And it helps to neutralize free radicals which protects mitochondria and helps to reduce systemic inflammation and it acts as a natural antihistamine for those of us with mast cell issues.

So it's probably a mixture of reasons why Vit C can help...

Good point Ema. Do you think there is a dopmaine connection here? Higher BH4 to increase dopamine which exerts a positive effect on the dopaminergenic system and consequently the thyroid. I know low dopamine can cause hypothyrodism.

 

[Valentijn]

Anything more than a tiny amount of vitamin C gives me diarrhea. And I don't recalling any research indicating that vitamin C helps ME/CFS patients.

My guess is that it's a bit of hype from a few patients with a misdiagnosis, a vitamin C deficiency, a placebo effect, and/or coincidental improvement.

 

[Mikee5]

My issue with people like Dr. Lam and other practitioners that have jumped on the 'adrenal fatigue' bandwagon and made use of its easily marketable treatment, they have no REAL success stories. Their testimonials are flooded with fake names and claims. Sure, Lam's website provides excellent resources and information for adrenal fatigue and explains it rather well, but in practice the treatment his team provides is completely unrealistic, unfounded and, quite frankly, just a bunch of pseudo-science. Dumping copious amounts of supplements into your body, especially for those with complex and advanced adrenal fatigue like myself, would induce paradoxical or stimulating reactions due to the weak adrenal glands' inability to metabolise nutrients.

I actually had a 'free' consultation with Dr. Lam's wife on the phone a few weeks ago, but she seemed to be more of a nutritionist/dietitian and gasped when she heard that I had gained 50 lbs in two years. She passed me onto another member of the team. My issues weren't really discussed, I was just suggested a program of 'detoxing' and to prepare myself to flood my endocrine system with a variety of supplements. Really it was just a call to quote a price for my treatment. Dr. Lam himself actually charges a total of $1,500. Absolutely not within my budget. I have scoured every Adrenal Fatigue forum to just find one success story from Dr. Lam, and I only found one story of recovery from mild adrenal fatigue with a few relapses along the way. The most desperate, sick people flock to these forums because of failed treatments from the likes of Lam and his counterparts.

I have never personally tried Vitamin C, but I can only assume that it would induce similar reactions to most other vitamin and mineral supplements I have experimented with. Marek Doyle, a well respected (and one of the very few) Adrenal Fatigue practitioners here in the UK wrote an article about Vitamin C. He emphasised that ascorbic acid (conventional Vitamin C supplements) is not actually Vitamin C: "Contrary to popular belief, ascorbic acid is not vitamin C. Vitamin C is a complex of naturally occurring hormones, phytonutrients and enzymes in which ascorbic acid is the active compound. Vitamin C can only be found in nature in the presence of bioflavonoids, normally in a 2:1 ratio. Supplementing synthetic ascorbic acid without the necessary co-factors challenges the body to rob these additional substances from it's own stores just to metabolise the ascorbic acid; essentially, you solve one shortage but create another. Additionally, the low liver function that regularly presents with adrenal fatigue can sometimes result in sensitivity to supplements, including vitamin C. Using alternate sources of vitamin C, such as a mineral ascorbate or the fermented 'food form' product, should be considered here. Some individuals with very severe adrenal fatigue may only tolerate powdered amla berries or acerola cherries". Check out the rest here.

 

[heapsreal]

Adrenal fatigue ie low cortisol and dhea or inappropriate cortisol response, is rarely an isolated issue. Boosting cortisol and dhea can help and make people feel better and their body run more efficiently . But the cause needs to be treated to have a recovery .

 

[Ema]

Marek Doyle, a well respected (and one of the very few) Adrenal Fatigue practitioners here in the UK wrote an article about Vitamin C. He emphasised that ascorbic acid (conventional Vitamin C supplements) is not actually Vitamin C: "Contrary to popular belief, ascorbic acid is not vitamin C. Vitamin C is a complex of naturally occurring hormones, phytonutrients and enzymes in which ascorbic acid is the active compound. Vitamin C can only be found in nature in the presence of bioflavonoids, normally in a 2:1 ratio. Supplementing synthetic ascorbic acid without the necessary co-factors challenges the body to rob these additional substances from it's own stores just to metabolise the ascorbic acid; essentially, you solve one shortage but create another.

I've never seen any convincing evidence for this and it goes against all the research of Linus Pauling et al. that you need to use some sort of pricey whole food Vitamin C for good effects.

Vitamin C was named by Funk long before anyone knew about ascorbic acid as the agent that prevented scurvy. Once they identified the structure, years later, they essentially became synonyms.

I've never seen anyone prove that Vitamin C is a complex of hormones, phytonutrients and enzymes. If they have, I'd love to see the cite.

 

[Dufresne]

I've experienced significant, albeit transitory, relief from large doses of vitamin C. It seemed to work by dealing with oxidative stress, but it never lasted more than a day. Perhaps we're energetically unable to recycle the stuff. Energy and oxidation/reduction is a really complicated subject, especially with this disease; one I don't think anybody understands.