Questions about Fredd's Active B12 therapy

[martins]

Hi,

I'm new here and have recently started the protocol. I do have a few questions about it that I hope can be answered.

1) What vegetables/fruits are ok to eat?. I noticed that leafy green vegetables seem to make my condition worse even those with a low folate content such as cilantro or swiss chard. Corn seems to be better for me even thought the folate content in it seems to be higher according to my sources.

2) On the protocols Country life active B12 Dibencozide 3000mcg was recommended. However upon ordering the bottle I have noticed that each pill contains 200mcg of Folic acid, which I have read I should avoid.

3) Should I take all the vitamins as sublinguals? Right now I take the mb12 and adb12 45 mins+ between my upper lip and gums. The methylfolate I simply down with water as well as the other vitamins (potassium, D ect..) Is this ok?

Thanks in advance,
Martin

 

[ahmo]

What vegetables/fruits are ok to eat?

I don't know of any fruits that are off limits. I no longer eat green veg, except for a smalll sprig from the garden once in awhile. It blocks Mfolate for me. My vegetable is carrot. Now adding tiny serves of sauerkraut, but that's about histamines, not folate issues. Should be ok for you to eat plenty of non-green veggies.

B12 Dibencozide

Source Naturals has 10mg Dibencozide. Used to use AnabolNaturals, but iherb no longer carries it.

3) Should I take all the vitamins as sublinguals?

Once I was at a stable dose, I switched to MB12 transdermal. There's a thread, titled Transdermal B12...Otherwise, I'd say, yes, take them all sublingually. I was able to cut my folate dose by 1/2 when I started putting it in gum line instead of swallowing.

 

[Oci]

Before I start on B12 sublinguals that may be hard on my teeth, I'd like to determine IF I really need them. How can I do this without spending a lot of $$$? I had a Metametrix ION test done about 10 years ago and it showed that the methylmalonic acid was in the right range. Recently I had a Doctor's Data CSA (stool analysis) test done and it showed digestion was good. There was Candida 2+ and enterobacter 4+ in the gut but fatty acids good etc.

What are the signs of B12 deficiency? Perhaps I am producing it? Perhaps taking Resistant Starch and other prebiotics plus probiotics will ensure that my gut is producing the B12 I need?

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Dear martins,

Without knowing what your diagnosis is nobody here can have any idea what to recommend. There is no good evidence for methylation or folate or B12 having anything to do with ME or CFS so it is unlikely that if you have ME/CFS you need to bother with these. It seems very unlikely that any adverse effects of vegetables would be due to folate content. I suspect you would do well to forget about methylation unless you have a medical reason to be concerned.

 

[Mary]

@martins - I would ignore what @Jonathan Edwards said above. I have been sick with CFS/ME for over 17 years and it wasn't until I started Freddd's protocol 5 years ago that I started to make any real progress in getting some of my energy back. Freddd's protocol has helped and still is helping many many of us and I think Mr. Edwards is doing all of us a great disservice with his comments. He is ignoring and discounting the experience of so many on this board and elsewhere.

Re your questions - I too take methylfolate and dibencozide as sublinguals, and I swallow the methylfolate (Solgar brand, a very good product)

 

[minkeygirl]

I don't see where you asked for a diagnosis, just methylation questions. Whether or not folate or methylation is your issue, I agree with @Mary re Mr Edwards

If you search his recents posts, you'll see he has had nothing positive to say about anything anyone else talks about. Suspecting something may not work and knowing are completely different things. Back it up.

This week alone naturopaths and supplements were called scams. and now methylation. I thought This forum was about support.

Only someone who has this disease understands how we need to try things instead if being victims to this illness. Many of us have been in the trenches for over 20 years, not 2 years.

I'm not going to sit around and take ibuprofen waiting to find out if rutuximab works and if I would even be a responder.

 

[barbc56]

This week alone naturopaths and supplements were called scams. and now methylation. I thought This forum was about support

Since when are we all supposed to see issues the same way? Never waver from the party line, so to speak.

Being unsupportive and negative has to do with the tone and manner a post is being conveyed and not necessarily the subject being discussed.

Do we automatically, discount what a person says simply because they don't have what we have?

A forum is a place to exchange ideas. Unfortunately, when we think there's only "one true way" of seeing things we end up dividing ourselves into two camps, the "goodies" and the "baddies". Them verses us.

That leaves out the we.

Barb

 

[minkeygirl]

I never said we had to agree. and I completely agree with you about us vs. them. And that's my point.

It's one thing to have a different point of view and explain why you feel that way.

It is another to completed bash something, several things, and IMO make people feel small and stupid while doing it.

There is a way to express your opinion and feelings and still be respectful of others. You can disagree snd still be empathetic. I find that missing.

 

[martins]

thanks for the replies.

@ahmo
so even citrus fruits such as oranges and lemons (which are known to be high in folate) are ok? and red peppers are ok, but not green peppers?

I've been avoiding vegetables the last few days and stopped taking the country life adb12 with folic acid added and my digestive issues are clearing up. I'll try the source naturals adb 12 you mentioned. I think my problem may be folic acid/veg folate blocking my methyl cycle.

right now I'm taking the following..

6x 1000mg mb12 sublinguals
3x 800mg methyl folate
6x 99mg potassium

I have b right complex mentioned in the protocol on the way.

@Jonathan Edwards
I'm sure your intentions are good, however I have given up on doctors a long time ago. they offer only band aid solutions to symptoms without looking for the real problem. Fredd's protocol has been helping me more in the last few weeks than doctors have in the last few years.

thanks again.

 

[ahmo]

so even citrus fruits such as oranges and lemons (which are known to be high in folate) are ok? and red peppers are ok, but not green peppers?

I don't know. I don't eat citrus due to histamines, don't enjoy green pepper, and should try re-introducing red peppers again.

I've been avoiding vegetables the last few days and stopped taking the country life adb12 with folic acid added and my digestive issues are clearing up

Jarrow B righ also has folic acid: Folate (from folic acid and QUATREFOLIC (6S)-5-methyltetrahydrofolic acid glucosamine salt) Is this what's listed in the protocol I compiled? or the other one? needs to be corrected.

 

[martins]

I believe the jarrow b right was posted on a stickied thread in this forum.

thanks for your prompt replies to my questions. I truly appreciate your guidance. I do however have a few more questions.

what does your diet look like? do you eat more fruits to compensate for the lack of green veggies? I am concerned that I may be missing some vitamins from my new diet since cutting out veggies and my supplements such as calcium/D/C don't seem to be getting well absorbed.

also could too much potassium and or methylfolate be blocking my mb12? is timing of doses important? right now I'm taking 3-6x 99 mg potassium, 3-6x 800mg of methylfolate and 5000mg of mb12. does this seem like a good ratio?

thanks again.

 

[ahmo]

Your supps looks good to me. K+ and folate won't block B12. I eat almost no fruits. I mourned the loss when I first started GAPS, but learned that fruit is an optional extra. Now occasional apple or pear, plus my daily green banana for resistant starch. I get my calcium from bone broth, use D drops (Thorne). I don't know what to suggest for better absorption.

 

[Aerose91]

Isn't the folate in vegetables folinic acid and therefore fairly well absorbed? I know the sulphate theory has been questioned but could that be a factor for some?

 

[ahmo]

Isn't the folate in vegetables folinic acid and therefore fairly well absorbed? I know the sulphate theory has been questioned but could that be a factor for some?

Not for some of us. Fred found the same as me. I found folinic supplements useless, finally Mfolate worked. Took me a long time to realize I needed to continue pushing up my folate doses because vegetable folinic was blocking it. Once I quit the vegetables, I decreased my folate by 50%, with no deficiency symptoms. Much as I've healed,my body still doesn't want more than a sprig or 2 of greens.

 

[Aerose91]

Not for some of us. Fred found the same as me. I found folinic supplements useless, finally Mfolate worked. Took me a long time to realize I needed to continue pushing up my folatedoses because vegetable folinic was blocking it. Once I quit the vegetables, I decreased my folate by 50%, with no deficiency symptoms. Much as I've healed,my body still doesn't want more than a sprig or 2 of greens.

Damn, that's crazy and unfortunate. Very interesting tho. Thank you

 

[Dazey]

Jarrow B righ also has folic acid: Folate (from folic acid and QUATREFOLIC (6S)-5-methyltetrahydrofolic acid glucosamine salt) Is this what's listed in the protocol I compiled? or the other one? needs to be corrected.

I was perturbed to read Jarrow B Right contains folic acid (since I've been taking it for quite a while), so I just checked the label on my current bottle and it doesn't contain any.

I bought mine from amazon.co.uk and the label on their listing does state it contains folic acid. The label on iHerb's listing also states that. However, Jarrow's own website states it only contains QUATREFOLIC (6S)-5-methyltetrahydrofolic acid glucosamine salt. It was reformulated in February 2015.

http://www.jarrow.com/product/57/B-Right

 

[Johnmac]

Dear martins,

Without knowing what your diagnosis is nobody here can have any idea what to recommend. There is no good evidence for methylation or folate or B12 having anything to do with ME or CFS so it is unlikely that if you have ME/CFS you need to bother with these. It seems very unlikely that any adverse effects of vegetables would be due to folate content. I suspect you would do well to forget about methylation unless you have a medical reason to be concerned.

I was chronically fatigued, and have had good gains in energy from methyl B12 & methylfolate. (I have also fixed severe ankylosing spondylitis &, more recently, kidney disease, with diet & herbs.) I don't personally believe a professor of medicine is qualified to speak on health matters.

 

[Irwin]

I don't think you need to avoid folic acid as the devil avoid the cross... 200mcg is a small dose, and if you use 1 capsule of dibencozide b12 in the week, I don't see problems

 

[Valentijn]

I was chronically fatigued, and have had good gains in energy from methyl B12 & methylfolate.

Chronic fatigue is not ME/CFS. It's not even close.