Methylation start up - what has been your experience?

[GoodVibesOnly]

Hi everyone,

I am relatively new to the board having joined a few months ago, however have mainly used the board for information in the past.

Recently I had the acumen test and based upon my results my nutritionist suggested what seems like a methylation protocol i.e. Multi, B12 and Methyl Folate. I had previously implemented a similar protocol and noticed the following:

1. Slight improvement in mood and outlook which fades after a few weeks
2. Slightly less fatigue which also fades after a few weeks

However I didn't really experience any methylation 'start up effects', which I had seen being reported on PR. I have now re-started the protocol in the last week again and do not feel any methylation start up symptoms (may be speaking too soon.....).

I am currently taking:

- Multi-vitamin and mineral protein shake from Seeking Health (with 400 mcg of folinic acid)
- 1,000 mcg (1ml) Methyl B12 injection - 3/4x week
- 5,000 mcg L-MTHF (daily sublingual)

My thinking is that in the absence of 'start up' symptoms that maybe I do not need the methylation protocol?

My Acumen tests results seem to indicate the reverse i.e. 'Very low enzyme activity' on my MnSOD2 gene studies, which would seem to indicate oxidative stress. Unfortunately my nutritionist did not order the test for Glutathione levels. However a previous organic acid test showed very low glutathione levels.

The tests also indicated very low levels of Magnesium, Manganese and NAD(B3). As a result of the test, I have also started introducing in Mitochondrial supplements incl:

- B complex (active forms of B's)
- B3 (Niacin - 500 mg)
- B5 (Pantethine 450mg)
- B6 (P5P - 50mg)
- Ubiquinol (200mg 2x day)
- Acetyl-L Carnitine (1g 1x day, with the hope to slowly incr to 1g 2x day)
- D-ribose (2g 1x day, with the hope to slowly incr to 5g 2x day) - **I am really struggling with the D-Ribose and get headaches if I try and take larger doses than 2g currently.
- Fish Oil (EPA/DHA) - 1 tablespoon 2x day
- Borage Oil (GLA) - 1/4 teaspoon day
- D3 (with K2) - 5,000 mg day
- Ionic Minerals - 2 small capfuls in my water bottle which I drink throughout the day
- Ionic Magnesium - 400 mg day/ Transdermal Magnesium @ 20 sprays a day
- Manganese drops - 5mg day (as indicated by low levels of Mn from Acumen test)

I am also looking to add in some liposomal Vitamin C and liposomal Glutathione to support my adrenals and liver.

I want to limit my supplements to those which are absolutely necessary, so as not to overload my system as well as for cost. I know the B12 is great in any case for general help and reducing any oxidative stress on the body, however just want to make sure I am not doing more harm than good taking the Methyl Folate as I have read so many instances on PR where this has created undesirable effects for people?

Many thanks
GoodVibes

 

[GoodVibesOnly]

@Freddd would appreciate your thoughts on this one.
Thanks
GoodVibes

 

[GoodVibesOnly]

@Plum this is the thread I was referring to. Any thoughts you could offer greatly appreciated.

 

[Plum]

@GoodVibesOnly how functioning are you? As I've already said to you I am NOT the one to ask on methylation BUT a few thoughts come to mind:
Is your diet good? Have you addressed food allergens? Are you taking good digestive enzymes and probiotics (I apologise if you've mentioned stuff and I've missed it, I am half dead today)! I shall email you more on my personal story to explain further as I don't want to clog this up. But my issues were masking my reaction to supplements.
I personally get increased inflammtion from things like Borage oil as I lack cofactors to break it down.
I have done this sort of supplement regime before to no avail but great expense.
I personally have been on a long journey to clean up diet and remove ALL food allergens. I now take: high dose omega 3, vit D, liver detox herbs, digestive enzymes and probiotics. I don't do well adding in a lot of stuff. I've seen other people recommend against it as if you do react you won't know what to. A GOOD diet should help you not need a lot of things. My recent blood tests have shown very few nutrient deficiencies.

My personal view is if you're going to do the methylation yourself, you have to learn the biochemistry. We have such limited access to testing here and the best way to understand things is by learning.

 

[GoodVibesOnly]

@GoodVibesOnly how functioning are you? As I've already said to you I am NOT the one to ask on methylation BUT a few thoughts come to mind:
Is your diet good? Have you addressed food allergens? Are you taking good digestive enzymes and probiotics (I apologise if you've mentioned stuff and I've missed it, I am half dead today)! I shall email you more on my personal story to explain further as I don't want to clog this up. But my issues were masking my reaction to supplements.
I personally get increased inflammtion from things like Borage oil as I lack cofactors to break it down.
I have done this sort of supplement regime before to no avail but great expense.
I personally have been on a long journey to clean up diet and remove ALL food allergens. I now take: high dose omega 3, vit D, liver detox herbs, digestive enzymes and probiotics. I don't do well adding in a lot of stuff. I've seen other people recommend against it as if you do react you won't know what to. A GOOD diet should help you not need a lot of things. My recent blood tests have shown very few nutrient deficiencies.

My personal view is if you're going to do the methylation yourself, you have to learn the biochemistry. We have such limited access to testing here and the best way to understand things is by learning.

@Plum my functioning is 'moderate' with some good days and other days with low functioning i.e. just resting for 80% of the day.

Re diet a few months ago it wasn't so great as I was going through a stressfull time (still am). I have since cleaned it up but feel it could probably be better. On a scale of 1-10 it is probably a 6-7 most days rising to 8 on very good days. I often do not have the energy to cook fancy meals so tend to stick to grilled salmon, veggies and rice noodles as per today. I have had a history of huge sugar cravings which has got better recently. I do not take digestive enzymes or probiotics as I was trying to clear up some gut issues so thought it would only be throwing money down the drain.

I agree that a good diet is the key, however I feel I was not really absorbing anything due to gut issues hence the supplementation. I definitely feel much worse when I stop supplementation or run out of things.

Will await your pm.

 

[Plum]

I'm sorry you're going through a stressful time. I hear you on the food prep. I recently got a slow cooker. I tend to cook meat in bulk.
My understanding is that if yr gut's bad you won't absorb your supplements well either. You need to work on GOOD digestive enzymes as well as probiotics before anything else.
Sugar cravings do go when your diet works. I had huge issues which vanished when I found the right way to eat for myself - however, it hasn't helped my energy 1 bit! I know Dr. Myhill recommends Stone Age. Paleo didn't work for me but Autoimmune Paleo does. I also believe in books like Nourishing Traditions for proper prep of grains if you tolerate them. I spend almost all of my daily energy on food prep.

 

[GoodVibesOnly]

@Plum so strange you mention those books - they have been in my amazon basket for ages esp the autoimmune paleo one. Somedays I feel like the money I spend on supplements might be better spent on hiring someone to cook me some yummy nutritious meals. I have had 'make bone broth' on my to do list for months, however am still to find a supplier of grass fed meat and carcasses I like.

 

[Plum]

@Plum so strange you mention those books - they have been in my amazon basket for ages esp the autoimmune paleo one. Somedays I feel like the money I spend on supplements might be better spent on hiring someone to cook me some yummy nutritious meals. I have had 'make bone broth' on my to do list for months, however am still to find a supplier of grass fed meat and carcasses I like.

Abel and Cole. Gotta let go of grassfed a bit in the UK I think - our cold climate makes it hard... best meat is Riverford for me. Bone broth - get a slow cooker. It can do the work while you sleep. Happy to give tips as I make it often.

Join the Auotimmune Paleo group on FB. Loads of free advice. I've never bought the books!

I agree about the money being better spent on a chef. Eating really well is very hard. Bulk cooking helps loads. We do it with meat.

 

[GoodVibesOnly]

Abel and Cole. Gotta let go of grassfed a bit in the UK I think - our cold climate makes it hard... best meat is Riverford for me. Bone broth - get a slow cooker. It can do the work while you sleep. Happy to give tips as I make it often.

Join the Auotimmune Paleo group on FB. Loads of free advice. I've never bought the books!

I agree about the money being better spent on a chef. Eating really well is very hard. Bulk cooking helps loads. We do it with meat.

@Plum who knew there was an AIP group on Facebook - I so need to get with the times - lol.
I am determined to eat well. The irony is before getting ill, I was (and still am) an amazing cook. Just need to get the energy levels up

 

[Plum]

@GoodVibesOnly an amazing cook you say....?! This sounds awesome! I'm a good home cook. Still am as have learnt a lot of short cuts. There's a few AIP FB groups. They're all knowledgeable and welcoming.

 

[Johnmac]

I'm on the Freddd Protocol, which is similar to yours.

I have had the same effect - up for a while, then the gains fade. My initial gains (two shots at the protocol so far) were excellent - but then faded away.

The secret (according to Fred & others) is ramping up the supps as you improve, because they generate healing - which then requires more of them. I think this especially applies to the folate, which creates via the above mechanism "paradoxical folate deficiency".

So far - only one ramp-up to date - this has proven true for me.

Alsosome of your B complex supps may be too high - I think Fredd talks about the low Bs (B1? B2? B3?) being counterproductive in anything other than small amounts.

 

[knackers323]

Hi @Johnmac and others can anyone please tell me the current brands that fredd is recommending for each supplement?

I know he favors certain b12 s but I can't find current info anywhere. Thanks