Info gathering for nootropics - Other ways to classify brain supplements?

[Changexpert]

I am beginning to suspect that brain has a bigger role in CFS. For instance, before I was bedridden for 3 months from last November to this year January, I was able to think pretty clearly when needed, have decent memory span, and choose the proper words in conversation. Since the worsening of CFS symptoms, my brain has been fogged consistently. I have lots of troubles in understanding or memorizing useful information. It is not rare for me to go over the same paragraphs several times, and even then, I forget the information pretty easily. My brain has been performing more and more poorly and I really would like to improve brain functionality. I just turned 27, so it would be ridiculous for me to think that this poor performance is from aging.

In a search for brain supplements, I've come across an interesting site that lists many supplements that help with brain functionality. http://nootriment.com/nootropics-list/
I am not associated with that website or any supplements being sold in any ways.

The website classifies supplements based on their effects on brain functionality/neurotransmitters, and enzymes that are related to neurologic reactions. This list is somewhat helpful, but it is very limited in its usage. For instance, I have seen several members on this forum who have negative reactions to sulfulr or thiol containing supplements. Tryptophan is another chemical that is not well tolerated by many people. This site does not mention anything in regards to chemical reactions with other supplements or potential side effects. It merely advertises different supplements based on the rating, which is what we often see from a typical review/marketing website.

Based on my previous experiences, I know how harmful supplements could be if taken blatantly. I strongly believe that expressed genetic profile is the most important factor determining the right supplements. I wanted to gather information based on PR members experiences to tie genetic profile to reactions from the supplements. Some of these supplements are prescription only and dosage safety has not even been tested. The ones I am really interested are racetams, cholinergics, acetylcholinesterase Inhibitors, GABAergics, serotonergics, dopaminergics, and cognitive enhancers. If you have tried any of the supplements listed below, please share your story along with your genetic profile (if you know). Thank you so much.

Racetams
Piracetam (Nootropil, Nootropyl, Nooracetam)
Aniracetam (Memotropil, Memodrin, Ampamet, Draganon, Referan)
Oxiracetam
Pramiracetam (Pramistar)
Noopept (Neuropept)
Phenylpiracetam (Carphedon, Phenotropil)
Coluracetam
Nefiracetam

Cholinergics
Choline
Citicoline (CDP Choline)
Alpha GPC (GPC Choline)
Choline Citrate
Choline Bitartrate
Phosphatidylcholine (PC)
Lecithin
Centrophenoxine (Lucidril, meclofenoxate)
DMAE

Acetylcholinesterase Inhibitors
Huperzine A
Huperzia Serrata
Galantamine

GABAergics
GABA
Phenibut (Noofen)
Picamilon

Seretonergics
Tryptophan
5 HTP
Griffonia Seed Extract

Dopaminergics
Sulbutiamine
DL-Phenylalanine
Tyrosine
Phenylethylamine
L-Dopa
Mucuna Pruriens
Theanine

Cognitive Metabolic Enhancers
Acetyl L-Carnitine (ALCAR)
Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA)
Creatine
Pyritinol
Propionyl L-Carnitine

 

[minkeygirl]

I just bought some piracetam. Haven't tried it yet.

There are some blogs that talk about the various ones and how they act.

 

[minkeygirl]

@Changexpert Here you go!

http://www.smarternootropics.com/2014/03/the-best-racetam-a-comparison-of-the-popular-racetams/

 

[whodathunkit]

FWIW, I got my most "normal" day in years, back (I think) last December, from a nootropic stack.

I had been doing Freddd's methylation protocol for about a year before starting the stack.

The stack was a combination of sulbutiamine, citicholine, alphaGPC choline, acetyl-l-carnitine, and noopept.

After a few weeks I began experiencing a marked uplift in mood, as well as an increasing amount of motivation and energy. But also some minor wiredness and mild anxiety. And dry skin (a side documented for both sulbutiamine and noopept).

Then one day it was like "poof", I was a normal person for a day. I got up that morning, and did everything I wanted to do without stopping. I cleaned my house for nearly 8 solid hours. I ran a couple errands. Visited a couple neighbors. Didn't get bored, tired, distracted, frustrated, have a shrieking nervous breakdown because my vacuum wouldn't corner the way I thought it should, or any of the other things that usually happen to me when I try to do intense cleaning. I just kept going and going. It was a great day.

Next day I was a little tired but no PEM. Nothing bad. But not very long after that I crashed again with a horrible stomach flu. I hadn't been that kind of sick since I was a kid. That stomach flu changed a lot of things for me, for the better. But I've never recovered the motivation and energy, and because the stack gave me very dry skin and eczema on my eyelids (an off-and-on long-time recurring problem that I hate) in addition to the crash, I've never really used it again. I tried sometime in January or February but the dry skin came back with a vengeance long before any of the mood/motivation benefits kicked in. So I haven't gone back.

Point being, brain chemistry is a HUGE part of energy and mitochondrial illnesses. There was no "physical" explanation for the extraordinary boost in energy I got from that stack...one would think I would have experienced that extreme increase in physical energy just from the methylation protocol, since it addresses so many of the chemical reasons for the physical disability aspect. But I didn't get the big boost from methylation *until* I addressed the brain as well as the body.

But exactly how to address brain chemistry reliably is the problem. It seems to be a delicate balance. I should have cycled my stack before sides kicked in or at minimum when they first howed up, but didn't because I was also feeling so good. I guess that's a common mistake people make with nootropics.

Plus I think a lot of the benefits had to do with the noopept and I'm unsure of the long-term safety of that. It's relatively new on the scene and it may actually be a failed pharmaceutical antidepressant. I don't like antidepressants.

Anyway, again, for whatever that's worth. I would love to get that boost back again, for keeps. It was a revelation, for sure.

 

[minkeygirl]

@Changexpert if you're in the US shop around for pricing.

I got mine #60 from Powdercity.com for $11.99 shipping $1.74. Other places were in the $30's

 

[GhostGum]

A fair bit of this kind of subject has been discussed before on the forums,

(search results for piracetam)
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?search/21052160/&q=Piracetam&o=date

I have used so many of these on and off over the years, the issue always lies with the fact that many may give short term benefits but that is where it ends, not to mention after a while and benefits can seem to dissipate.

Some staples that have stood the test of time for me would be ALCAR, Creatine and CDP Choline which I think have more staying power and potential in the longer term.

One thing with the racetams that has come up many times in my readings on it is it performs much better with a base of omega 3's, suspect this is probably the case with many nootropics; omega 3's should be at the top of your list of any nootropic stack anyway.

Phenibut I have used many times, it can be a fantastic relaxant, superior to benzo's IMO but it can have some serious tolerance and withdrawal issues if not used carefully (same as benzo's).

I am sure someone like @Hip can add a lot of insight here.

Edit: Added my genetic profile to my signature which you were after, serious under-methylator, love B12, hate methyfolate. Currently on B12 therapy which is 'saving' my life, along with the ALCAR and Choline.

 

[ahmo]

have a shrieking nervous breakdown because my vacuum wouldn't corner the way I thought it should,

So it's true, we're soul sisters!

Point being, brain chemistry is a HUGE part of energy and mitochondrial illnesses.

 

[silverseas2014]

I am beginning to suspect that brain has a bigger role in CFS. For instance, before I was bedridden for 3 months from last November to this year January, I was able to think pretty clearly when needed, have decent memory span, and choose the proper words in conversation. Since the worsening of CFS symptoms, my brain has been fogged consistently. I have lots of troubles in understanding or memorizing useful information. It is not rare for me to go over the same paragraphs several times, and even then, I forget the information pretty easily. My brain has been performing more and more poorly and I really would like to improve brain functionality. I just turned 27, so it would be ridiculous for me to think that this poor performance is from aging.

In a search for brain supplements, I've come across an interesting site that lists many supplements that help with brain functionality. http://nootriment.com/nootropics-list/
I am not associated with that website or any supplements being sold in any ways.

The website classifies supplements based on their effects on brain functionality/neurotransmitters, and enzymes that are related to neurologic reactions. This list is somewhat helpful, but it is very limited in its usage. For instance, I have seen several members on this forum who have negative reactions to sulfulr or thiol containing supplements. Tryptophan is another chemical that is not well tolerated by many people. This site does not mention anything in regards to chemical reactions with other supplements or potential side effects. It merely advertises different supplements based on the rating, which is what we often see from a typical review/marketing website.

Based on my previous experiences, I know how harmful supplements could be if taken blatantly. I strongly believe that expressed genetic profile is the most important factor determining the right supplements. I wanted to gather information based on PR members experiences to tie genetic profile to reactions from the supplements. Some of these supplements are prescription only and dosage safety has not even been tested. The ones I am really interested are racetams, cholinergics, acetylcholinesterase Inhibitors, GABAergics, serotonergics, dopaminergics, and cognitive enhancers. If you have tried any of the supplements listed below, please share your story along with your genetic profile (if you know). Thank you so much.

Racetams
Piracetam (Nootropil, Nootropyl, Nooracetam)
Aniracetam (Memotropil, Memodrin, Ampamet, Draganon, Referan)
Oxiracetam
Pramiracetam (Pramistar)
Noopept (Neuropept)
Phenylpiracetam (Carphedon, Phenotropil)
Coluracetam
Nefiracetam

Cholinergics
Choline
Citicoline (CDP Choline)
Alpha GPC (GPC Choline)
Choline Citrate
Choline Bitartrate
Phosphatidylcholine (PC)
Lecithin
Centrophenoxine (Lucidril, meclofenoxate)
DMAE

Acetylcholinesterase Inhibitors
Huperzine A
Huperzia Serrata
Galantamine

GABAergics
GABA
Phenibut (Noofen)
Picamilon

Seretonergics
Tryptophan
5 HTP
Griffonia Seed Extract

Dopaminergics
Sulbutiamine
DL-Phenylalanine
Tyrosine
Phenylethylamine
L-Dopa
Mucuna Pruriens
Theanine

Cognitive Metabolic Enhancers
Acetyl L-Carnitine (ALCAR)
Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA)
Creatine
Pyritinol
Propionyl L-Carnitine

Hello. From your list I have tried the following:

--Choline Bitartrate: I take every day with some inositol---effects? don't really know
--Centrophenoxine (Lucidril, meclofenoxate): Took briefly 2 years ago; had slightly improved focus, but caused headaches and I discontinued
--DMAE: Took briefly two years ago; gave me headaches and had incredible sleepiness
--Mucuna Pruriens: Took briefly years ago---no noticeable effects
--Theanine: Have taken it on and off for years; excellent at calming me, but the effects diminish if I take it every day.


Not listed, but interesting:

--Semax: Took two years ago. Found it to have mild anxiolytic effects; somewhat helpful with focus.

Cheers,
Silverseas2014

 

[Hip]

One thing with the racetams that has come up many times in my readings on it is it performs much better with a base of omega 3's, suspect this is probably the case with many nootropics; omega 3's should be at the top of your list of any nootropic stack anyway.

I am sure someone like @Hip can add a lot of insight here.

I know that racetams work better if you take vitamin B5 and a choline source with them at the same time. Choline sources would include choline bitartrate, or alpha GPC.

I had not come across omega 3 further boosting the effects of racetams though. I will have to try it.

 

[Wayne]

Didn't get bored, tired, distracted, frustrated, have a shrieking nervous breakdown because my vacuum wouldn't corner the way I thought it should...,

Hi @whodathunkit,

Have to say I got a good chuckle out of your above [most apt] description... Thanks!

 

[whodathunkit]

@Wayne:

 

[Wayne]

The ones I am really interested are racetams, cholinergics, acetylcholinesterase Inhibitors, GABAergics, serotonergics, dopaminergics, and cognitive enhancers. If you have tried any of the supplements listed below, please share your story along with your genetic profile (if you know).

Hi @Changexpert,

You may want to check out THIS POST that I just made on another thread [6-18-15].

Wayne

 

[TheChosenOne]

Things I've tried:

Cholinergics
Phosphatidylcholine (PC): Relieves brain fog a bit and it improves overall brain functioning, although the effects are small.
Lecithin: Same.

GABAergics
GABA: Very good relaxant. Very important for people who have COMT +/+

Seretonergics
5 HTP: Didn't do anything.

Cognitive Metabolic Enhancers
Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA): The best substance so far to remove brain fog. I use it to chelate mercury.

 

[Sidereal]

Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA): The best substance so far to remove brain fog. I use it to chelate mercury.

What dose are you using?

 

[TheChosenOne]

What dose are you using?

At the moment 12.5 mg, but I think I can go much higher than this.

 

[Thewonders92]

Noopept was really interesting for me, the other racetams gave me headaches.

Choline precursors put me in a serious depression but remove obsessive compulsive tendencies.

Acetylcholinesterase inhibition as far as coffee goes is good to keep depression back for me, going to be trying huperzine a on Friday.

Anyways, with that information out there.

Dopamine agonists help or even cure a lot of my issues but I have addiction problems and avoid them, I got my 23andme back and found out I have a lot of serious drd2 polymorphisms leading to potentially lowered D2.

Noopept has activity at D2.

I've never had psychotic symptoms, no hallucinations, paranoia etc.

But on noopept I did, for a week. I would always worry someone was behind me, that I was being watched etc. And would always be on edge worrying I was about to see a hallucination.

After a week it went away, I felt more sane than ever, depression went away a lot, so did social anxiety, it was just gone. But I also noticed a pretty substantial case of adhedonia after, I felt emotionless, which at the time was good because I was dealing with a lot of stress. Kept taking it for a month and ran out, never took it again.

Seeing as D2 is the primary site for schizophrenia I'd imagine there's something going on there, within 5 minutes of sublingual administration I was becoming paranoid and frightened, it continued for a week and just completely stopped and with it somehow my social anxiety went away (it's still more or less gone).