no start up reactions, just adrenaline and restlessness

[Aerose91]

It's been months and I can't get over 1mg of mb12 and .5-1mg methylfolate. After a few days of that my adrenaline, restlessness, anxiety and tinnitus are through the effing roof. I am still not recovered from severe ativan withdrawal about 3 years ago and when taking methyl donors it seems to ramp up those particular symptoms. That leads me to believe that the mb12 and methylfolate are increasing my glutamate and dopamine. Theanine helps a little but nothing will counter the effects of the methyl donors. I have also cleared sulphates and that didn't help anything.

What is someone in this situation supposed to do?

 

[Gondwanaland]

You could try caledonia's approach
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...w-to-be-safe-on-a-methylation-protocol.26711/

 

[Aerose91]

Thanks for that. I'd say I pretty much do that, though. I just reach a point where I can't increase any further. Is there any benefit to just maintaining my very low dose for many months?

 

[Gondwanaland]

I can't answer that, but if you feel better on the supplements, that should be the benefit I suppose.

 

[Aerose91]

No, I don't feel any different. Just worse because of the increased restlessness

 

[Adster]

Taurine helps me a lot with similar symptoms.

 

[ahmo]

You might try increasing the B12 a bit. I get restlessness, anxiety-type symptoms when folate is too high, eg. when I was titrating up, and MB12 damped them down.

 

[Aerose91]

You might try increasing the B12 a bit. I get restlessness, anxiety-type symptoms when folate is too high, eg. when I was titrating up, and MB12 damped them down.

I got the same symptoms when I was taking just mb12, before I even started methylfolate. I'm not sure if I can tell if there's a difference in reaction between the two

 

[Aerose91]

Taurine helps me a lot with similar symptoms.

I take 300mg of taurine a day as of the past several months

 

[Adster]

I take 300mg of taurine a day as of the past several months

Does it help those symptoms at all ?

 

[Aerose91]

Does it help those symptoms at all ?

No. Nothing helps them except laying off the methylation supplements and to a lesser extent, niacin but niacin not so much

 

[Mary]

It's been months and I can't get over 1mg of mb12 and .5-1mg methylfolate. After a few days of that my adrenaline, restlessness, anxiety and tinnitus are through the effing roof. I am still not recovered from severe ativan withdrawal about 3 years ago and when taking methyl donors it seems to ramp up those particular symptoms. That leads me to believe that the mb12 and methylfolate are increasing my glutamate and dopamine. Theanine helps a little but nothing will counter the effects of the methyl donors. I have also cleared sulphates and that didn't help anything.

What is someone in this situation supposed to do?

Here's an article about using higher doses of niacin to help with benzo withdrawal - it is supposed to shorten the withdrawal period and make it much more bearable:
http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v10n09.shtml - niacin stimulates GABA receptors, among other things.

Niacin also helps if someone is overmethylating, which it sounds like you may be doing.

Maybe you should concentrate on trying to completely recover from the Ativan withdrawal (which I know can be very severe) using the above protocol, before attempting the methylation supplements.

Caledonia (mentioned above) recommends timed-release niacin for over-methylation. However, in general time-release is not the best form, especially when taking higher doses, as timed-release niacin in sufficient doses has been linked to liver damage, unlike plain niacin. Also, I've found that regular niacin - not no-flush - is the best form. It helps me with sleep.

 

[Aerose91]

Thanks @Mary, I appreciate it. I'm a little over 3 years post ativan and the ME is severe enough to where I have to do something. I do, however, take about 180mg of niacin every day. I take Dr Lynch's B-Minus. That's really interesting about niacin and GABA receptors though, I'll take whatever I can get!

 

[Ruthie24]

Certainly not any kind of expert in all this, but taking GABA helps me with some of these symptoms.

 

[Stebor]

@Aerose91 you wrote, you cleared sulphates. How did you do that?? I think I need to do something similar, but don't have the knowledge..

Thanks.

 

[Mary]

Thanks @Mary, I appreciate it. I'm a little over 3 years post ativan and the ME is severe enough to where I have to do something. I do, however, take about 180mg of niacin every day. I take Dr Lynch's B-Minus. That's really interesting about niacin and GABA receptors though, I'll take whatever I can get!

Hi @Aerose91 - you might try increasing your niacin and just see what happens. I know someone said that's like stepping on the gas and the brake at the same time (methylation and niacin) but it might be helpful. I don't think it would hurt you. I think timing is important for taking the niacin.

I take 500 mg. niacin after dinner - I found it helps with sleep and it doesn't seem to interfere with my methylation supplements during the day. I also take another 500 mg. in divided doses at bedtime and the middle of the night for sleep as well. But I don't take it in the morning - it made me tired in the morning.

I'm taking 1600 mcg. methylfolate (in divided doses) and 5 mg. sublingual methlcobalamin (sometimes 10 mg. in two doses) and also 3,000 mcg. dibencozide.

Good luck! I often tell my sister we are lab experiments

 

[PeterPositive]

I take 500 mg. niacin after dinner - I found it helps with sleep and it doesn't seem to interfere with my methylation supplements during the day. I also take another 500 mg. in divided doses at bedtime and the middle of the night for sleep as well. But I don't take it in the morning - it made me tired in the morning.

Wow, 1000mg of B3. Are you sure it's really not interfering? That's certainly a dose that should sequester a significant amount of methyl groups... just asking.

 

[Mary]

Wow, 1000mg of B3. Are you sure it's really not interfering? That's certainly a dose that should sequester a significant amount of methyl groups... just asking.

That's a good question. I didn't start out at that dose, and I generally watch very carefully to see how I react to things. What I noticed when I first started the niacin was that it helped my sleep a lot. And sleep has been a problem for me for many years.

So I didn't notice niacin interfering with my energy during the day, as long as I just took it at night.

Having said all this, you do make a good point and I think I will experiment a little more - I'll try cutting out the after-dinner dose and just take it before bed and during the night, so half of what I've been taking, and see if that does the trick!

 

[Aerose91]

@Aerose91 you wrote, you cleared sulphates. How did you do that?? I think I need to do something similar, but don't have the knowledge..

Thanks.

I followed a low thiol diet and after a few weeks checked my sulphates with urine sulphate strips. There are some conflicting opinions about this now but as of the time I did it it was the right thing to do

 

[PeterPositive]

That's a good question. I didn't start out at that dose, and I generally watch very carefully to see how I react to things. What I noticed when I first started the niacin was that it helped my sleep a lot. And sleep has been a problem for me for many years.

So I didn't notice niacin interfering with my energy during the day, as long as I just took it at night.

Having said all this, you do make a good point and I think I will experiment a little more - I'll try cutting out the after-dinner dose and just take it before bed and during the night, so half of what I've been taking, and see if that does the trick!

The amount of B12 and folate you take + the B3 should definitely help your energy. B3 is pretty powerful to keep you energized as it turns into NADH/NADPH among other things.

Methylation is not just about energy... actually it's not even directly connected to energy production per se. It's about maintaining a healthy amount of SAMe and glutathione.