Guardian: UK Govt. knew of danger of organophosphates, ignored it (Mar quoted).

[Esther12]

New story, maybe important, especially if it does lead on to a real enquiry. Big up to Lady Mar:

Government officials knew of the dangerous health risks to farmers using a chemical treatment in the 1980s and 1990s but still refused to end its compulsory use, documents reveal for the first time.

At least 500 farmers across the UK were left with debilitating health problems after using organophosphate-based (OP) chemicals to protect their sheep against parasites, whose use was mandated by government until 1992.

Successive UK governments have claimed they did not know about the dangers farmers faced using the OPs for sheep dipping at that time and also dispute any link between repeated, low-level use of the chemical and chronic ill health, including serious neurological damage.

It has now emerged that government officials were privately warning of the dangers of exposure to even low doses of the chemical and criticising the safety measures offered by manufacturers, prompting calls by senior political figures for a Hillsborough-style inquiry.

A Health and Safety Executive (HSE) survey of farmers, released under an freedom of information request, said that: “Repeated absorption of small doses [can] have a cumulative effect and can result in progressive inhibition of nervous system cholinesterase.”

It also criticised manufacturers for providing inadequate protective clothing and unclear instructions to farmers on how to use the chemicals: “If with all the resources available to them, a major chemical company proves unable to select appropriate protective equipment, what hope is there for an end-user?.”

However, in the same month as this report was published internally – May 1991 – the farming minister at the time, John Gummer, was demanding local authorities clamp down on farmers who refused to use the chemical.

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...knew-of-farm-poisoning-risk-but-failed-to-act

Somewhat related to CFS controversies, psycholoigisation of symptoms, etc.

Mar discussing a 1998 report on this: http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/shepdip.html
BBC coverage of that report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/211513.stm

I now can't find a copy of the report itself, but remember reading it years ago and thinking it was a bit irritating.

This is part of a 1998 parliamentary report on CFS:

Chronic fatigue has been associated with a wide range of conditions, and research in these
fields may yield useful information. Veterans returning from the Gulf War have reported
a wide range of symptoms, including chronic fatigue, and suspicion has fallen on the use
of organophosphate pesticides (one of a number of avenues of investigation). There have
been suggestions that this group of pesticides may also be implicated in ill health in
farmers.

A review of the scientific and medical literature carried out by the MRC Institute for
Environment and Health (IEH) doubts that chronic, serious health effects result from low
level exposure to organophosphates:71


Although there is at present insufficient evidence to eliminate the possibility that
subtle (ie. not subjectively apparent) effects may be produced by low-level
exposure to organophosphorus pesticides, based on the published evidence it can
be concluded that such exposures are not likely to be responsible, in themselves,
for any adverse health effects large enough to be subjectively apparent.

However, this is again an area of uncertainty, and further studies on the effects of
organophosphorus compounds on human health are currently being carried out.72

A Joint Working Group of the Royal College of Physicians and Royal College of
Psychiatrists set up to examine the clinical aspects of long term low dose exposure to
organophosphate sheep dips acknowledged that some studies have identified subtle
cognitive impairment (impaired attention and reaction times), greater psychiatric ill-
health and minor sensory changes. However, it considers that there are methodological
weaknesses in the studies, and it also considers that further research is needed to elucidate
the role of organophosphates in the health problems identified.73

The Committee on Toxicity of Chemicals in Food, Consumer Products and the
Environment (COT) has set up a special Working Group to examine the IEH report and
other related scientific evidence and is expected to report early in 1999.

http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/RP98-107.pdf

 

[MeSci]

Ah yes - John Gummer - the man who publicly fed a beefburger to his young daughter to convince the public that British beef was safe...which it wasn't.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/369625.stm

In 1995/6 I was looking into the possibility that the illness I was developing might be due to the organophosphates in a cat flea treatment I had been using. I was sent from pillar to post from one government department/agency to another, ending up back where I started.

The Pesticides Safety Directorate claimed in a letter that no pet flea treatments contained organophosphates. I had to refer them to a list of such products published by another government department/agency.

They didn't know?!!!

 

[bertiedog]

I also wondered about the connection between my health issues which first started in 1979 and the organophosphate spray I used to use on my golden retrievers. Now I know I have a genetic problem with detoxification, I am positive that using that spray contributed to weakening me further.

Pam

 

[worldbackwards]

I first got sick after over-exposure to Malathion lotion, which caused muscle weakness, PEM, sensitivities and the like and deteriorated into ME after about three months.

Is the official line on chronic OP poisoning still 'nothing to see here' or have we moved on to a more constructive situation? Does this affect treatment options at all (no, I'm not holding my breath)?

I thought things might have changed if they're admitting that harm is caused and I know some stuff (including Malathion) was banned by the EU a while back. I remember it because The Sun was greatly exercised that if pesticides were banned it might mean daisies would grow at Wembley and thereby ruin the Cup Final (no, really).

 

[SilverbladeTE]

Bingo, just like I've said before!
UK government = sick evil degenerate traitorous cowardly useless murdering GOBSHYTE SCUM!

 

[brenda]

I was poisoned by a carbamate pesticide, sprayed throughout my home by the local authority due to cat fleas left by a previous tenant, and the family were not moved out for the spraying. The result was catastrophic for me having ME already. I was vomiting and passing out.

I took the council to court but the case was lumped together with the sheep dip farmers and we all had our legal aid withdrawn at one point. My solicitor was suspected by many of coercing with the government by causing delays until the ruling was issued.

So that was it. No one brought to justice.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

I first got sick after over-exposure to Malathion lotion, which caused muscle weakness, PEM, sensitivities and the like and deteriorated into ME after about three months.

Is the official line on chronic OP poisoning still 'nothing to see here' or have we moved on to a more constructive situation? Does this affect treatment options at all (no, I'm not holding my breath)?

I thought things might have changed if they're admitting that harm is caused and I know some stuff (including Malathion) was banned by the EU a while back. I remember it because The Sun was greatly exercised that if pesticides were banned it might mean daisies would grow at Wembley and thereby ruin the Cup Final (no, really).

Murdoch is one of the worst SOB the world has ever seen, his corporate empire spews lies and hatred like a blight

 

[SilverbladeTE]

As said I got M.E. after a very nasty flu like bug, and a "damp proof" coating the local council put down in my bedroom
damn stuff made me and the workmen sick as hell for months, no idea what was in the shit, OP or who knows what, but folk are coming downing with ME and similar illnesses after exposure to this class of poison
it may well be a case of "the straw that broke the camels back", or causative agent for some, who knows until work is really done on accepting and identifying these illnesses in truly huge studies that *need* done
( I tend to think viral cause that sets up issues that other things can trigger later, and the trigger, circumstances and genetics cause what the final effect is, be it ME, Fibro, MS etc)

finding precision in cohorts of 20 to 100 folk is not much use really when what's really needed is studies of similar illnesses in depth on thousands of folk at the same time
prevalence of ME, Fibro, MS and others requires such, simple reductionism is infantile for such scope

 

[Hip]

I also had a severe exposure to malathion, because a half bottle of this stuff was spilt on the floor in the house where I live, and was not properly cleared up, as the idiot who spilt it had no idea that pesticides are potent toxins.

Malathion is particularly dangerous if spilt in an indoor environment, because its breakdown metabolite malaoxon is 33 times more toxic that malathion.† When malathion is spilt indoors, this highly potent toxin malaoxon cannot disperse, and so poisons people living or working in that indoor environment.

I believe the safety testing on this pesticide was focused on malathion; but if they had considered its much more toxic breakdown metabolite malaoxon as well, this pesticide would have never been certified for sale to the general public.



Very soon after my malathion exposure, I caught this nasty enterovirus which triggered my ME/CFS. But the question is, would have I developed ME/CFS from this virus if I had not had that severe malathion exposure?

Chronic exposure to significant amounts of organophosphate pesticides such as malathion have been linked to triggering ME/CFS.† In one study, farmers using organophosphate-based "sheep dip" in Scotland were found to have rates of ME/CFS four times higher than the national average.†

Pyrethroid pesticides have also been linked to ME/CFS.†

Organochlorine pesticides such as DDT and dieldrin have also been linked to ME/CFS,† † † † but most organochlorines have been banned for several decades now.



If you happen to have the TT allele in your rs662 SNP of your PON1 gene (which you can look up on 23andme here), then you will be more susceptible to poisoning from organophosphate pesticides such as malathion.

PON1 is the gene involved in organophosphate detoxification, and this TT allele makes you less able to detoxify organophosphates from your body. Unfortunately I have the TT allele. More info in this thread.



EDIT: actually it seems that for some organophosphate compounds, the TT allele may make PON1 slower at detoxification; and for other organophosphates, the TT allele may make PON1 faster at detoxification. See this post.

So I don't think we can say that the TT allele on rs662 SNP uniformly slows the detoxification of organophosphates by PON1. If I understood correctly, I think you would need to look at this on a case-by-case basis, and see whether for the organophosphate in question, how the TT allele affects the detoxification rate of PON1.

 

[South]

"damp proof" coating the local council put down in my bedroom

@Silverblade In your country, can the local council force people to have chemical coatings put inside their houses? Just wondered if that is what some countries are doing, for some reason. So I can start finding a cave somewhere to live, in case all countries eventually do this

 

[worldbackwards]

I also had a severe exposure to malathion, because a half bottle of this stuff was spilt on the floor in the house where I live, and was not properly cleared up, as the idiot who spilt it had no idea that pesticides are potent toxins.

It does get in the air if you leave it lying around - I kept a bottle in my room for ages and it always stank of it.

 

[Sea]

I was exposed to Dieldrin, DDT, Roundup (glycophosphate), whatever was in pour on cattle dip and some unknowns in my years as a farmer's daughter. There were lots of unlabelled chemicals left behind by the previous property owners and a high level of ignorance in using them and no protective gear used at all.

I didn't get ME/CFS until after Glandular fever 18 months after leaving the farm. A few doctors have thought the chemical exposure probably added to my susceptibility, most have dismissed it completely given that I wasn't sick when I was exposed.

I am CT for the PON1 snp.

 

[Hip]

It does get in the air if you leave it lying around - I kept the bottle in my room for ages afterwards and it always stank of it.

I think these topical solutions (like Ovide) for treating lice and scabies are 0.1% malathion, so they are not as strong as a bottle of 100% malathion that you might find in a gardener's shed


From the poisoning point of view, a major issue is an individual's PON1 gene activity in the blood, which can vary as much as 40-fold between one person and the next.† If you have low PON1 activity, organophosphate pesticides are going to be as much as 40 times more toxic for you compared to a person with high PON1 activity.

I am CT for the PON1 snp.

PON1 activity is highest in those with the CC allele of rs662 (best detoxifiers),
PON1 activity is average in those with the CT allele of rs662 (average detoxifiers),
PON1 activity is lowest in those with the TT allele of rs662 (worst detoxifiers).
Ref: here.


Interestingly, these alleles don't fully determine PON1 activity: even in people with the same PON1 allele, there can be significant variation in PON1 activity.

Note that the rs662 SNP in the PON1 gene is also referred to as PON1 Q192R.

 

[Sea]

PON1 activity is highest in those with the CC allele of rs662 (best detoxifiers),
PON1 activity is average in those with the CT allele of rs662 (average detoxifiers),
PON1 activity is lowest in those with the TT allele of rs662 (worst detoxifiers).


Interestingly, these alleles don't fully determine PON1 activity: even in people with the same PON1 allele, there can be significant variation in PON1 activity.

Note that the rs662 SNP in the PON1 gene is also referred to as PON1 Q192R.

Yes I noticed when I looked it up at OMIM that there are other PON1 snps as well that affect ability to detoxify the organophosphates but 23andme doesn't test for those

 

[SilverbladeTE]

@Silverblade In your country, can the local council force people to have chemical coatings put inside their houses? Just wondered if that is what some countries are doing, for some reason. So I can start finding a cave somewhere to live, in case all countries eventually do this

No
Lot of background info:
what happened is that we ordinary peons here mostly live in local council owned properties, thus they are very low cost, otherwise most folk in poorer areas of UK would be homeless and I'd be leading an armed rebellion, WTF not when yer screwed eh?
But, since we had humane and sensible leaders once upon a time, they realised the hellish systems of the past had to go, so after much of the housing stock was bombed out in WW2 or was horrible (some housing here dated back to 17th even 15th centuries), there was a mass program of building homes for the Working Class across the UK.

But...lot of the designs/builds were crap, the original ideas they were only for 20 or 30 years to they built BETTER ones but that never happened, as bureaucratic idiocy and all kinds of crap in our weakening government in later 60s and 70s stopped new builds that were needed
along comes the Wicked Bitch of the South East, Maggie "I Protect Kiddie Fiddlers" Thatcher, and she started a scheme to let council tenants buy the houses they had ben renting from the council, sometimes for many decades
her desire was to turn everyone into a property owning Tory, and to hell with the consequences

Note that was cause of lot of the huge social problems now overwhelming the UK, it started the bullshit of making homes "financial investments" instead of *HOMES*
2/3rds of the council homes that were bought ended up in the hands of private rental companies who have massively increased rent prices, as the average price of a house in Southern England soared to £250,000, vastly above any sane real term cost
it had huge knock on effects, driving many ordinary folk form their homes in London for example
It is all due to collapse, it's an enormous "Bubble", when it pops, BOOM! about a trillion dollars is going to be wiped off the board...and then the properties will be bought up for buttons by the Elite, as always happens in "bubble bursts"...though that will probably be trigger, OR, result of the oncoming second economic crash which will be a doozy
Serious, I can show you evidence for all this.


Now back to my issues....

Ok, we moved into this house about 30 years ago, as said these houses weren't well built as they were meant to be replaced. The high rise flats that were built across the UK, most had a dreadful flaw, one so stupid it beggars belief: the designs were for the SOUTH OF FRANCE. 4 in a block house I live in is really more for SE England.
Scotland is very wet, cold and very windy

Thus, damp (mould) was a very serious problem in the housing stock
and then along comes Human Group Psychology 101... :/
They blamed the TENANTS for the damp, because hey, they, whether it be local or national government, Left or Right, are all about keeping their arse in gravy and control
I am not kidding you, they blamed the damp that was actually killing babies in the high rise flats on people having too much sex, making moisture. I kid thee not.

To show how badly designed these houses were, the windows were made of single glazed glass with thin, flat BRASS frames. Brass is a metal, it transmits heat very well, so in a cold climate...yes the windows FROZE every winter. All part of why we have such a low life expectancy.

My room had bad damp (mould), I proffered to leave windows open and paint over it. But my Mum God rest her over fussy cotton socks, wanted something done, so she got the council to do something.

Workmen came out and painted this black, tarry substance over the entire floor and other places
the fumes were HELLISH, I was stoned from the fumes about 6 months, you could still smell it ten years later come up through the carpet!
it's not funny it's not nice, I do not understand why anyone would want to do drugs that do that kind of thing
some time later I met one of the work crew and he told me he and the other men had been in his words "violently ill" putting that stuff down


Now my head was so messed up with all that I honeslty have no idea what was the order of events, but, a beloved uncle died, they put that damp proofing down on my bedroom floor, there was a very nasty flue like bug that persisted for 2 months going around and I got it (GP said a lot of the folk who had ME in his patients here got it at that outbreak),
and then I know the final event was a ghastly period where I was hellishly sick for over two weeks, I was staggering around, falling, hardly able to think or operate. I was so sick, I couldn't even think to get medical help!
I smelled something funny on my breathe, so I managed to ponder if it was from blood sugar as I have lot of diabetics in family
did blood test, well for around that two weeks I'd been running blood sugar of 2.4 to 2.7, should be 7 to 12 on that scale
I was so messed in the head by it I couldn't articulate that I needed help, absolutely ghastly, I've never done drugs in my life (apart from getting drunk ) so I have nothing I can directly compare it to. were some similarities to be absolutely smashed drunk or meningitis but quite different.

After that, thinking I was well, one sunny da I decided to walk up the street to get family groceries etc as I usually did, mile each way, used to get stuff for us, gran/grandpa, dad, aunt.
Was half way up the route when the sickness/weakness of ME just sucked the life out of me, kept struggling never having had it before, by that point I just collapsed against a wall wondering WTF was going on?
repeated experiences eventually lead me to go to our GP
On seeing me I do recall he said "Oh we don't' see you hear often, what can I do for you?" so this idea of us being hypochondriacs is BULLSHIT, hate hate hate bothering people or being bothered (beyond niceties or helping folk).

So, no they didn't "force" the damp proofing but the bureaucratic stupidity of the local councils etc here is mind numbing at times!
And there was no way peons like us could fight 'em, lol take 'em to court? it's stitched up 3 ways from Sunday.
And where could we move? we couldn't' afford private renting, and it takes years to arrange a council house swap

 

[JPV]

This is why I think so little governmental effort is being put into studying CFS/ME. My guess is that the true cause of these illnesses is from the accumulated ingestion of various government approved toxins such as pesticides, mercury, fluoride, MSG, antibiotics, vaccines, amongst countless other food and drug additives

Trying to find a cure would inevitably lead to the discovery and disclosure of the true origins of these conditions. If this was to ever be publicly revealed, the liability claims and banning of these various substances could easily cripple several governments and industries.

 

[Hip]

My guess is that the true cause of these illnesses is from the ingestion of various toxins such as pesticides, mercury, fluoride, MSG, antibiotics, vaccines, amongst countless other food and drug additives.

Sounds like a line from Mike Adams the Health Ranger.

 

[JPV]

Sound like a line from Mike Adams the Health Ranger.

Or a description of 90% of the discussions on these forums.

 

[SilverbladeTE]

Or the governments merely FEAR it's a possibility
they often act out of stupidity because some Minister, Under Secretary or whatever is scared of NOT BEING IN CONTROL!!
or some problem arises so they force it to "go away", regardless of facts, preventing investigation and certainty

governments underwrite vaccines, they are NEVER going to allow anything that could prove there maybe serious issues with vaccines to be established, talking trillions of dollars in lawsuits, it would bring governments down, they know that, so...the BS Department is always at work
and there is much collusion and corruption between Big business and government, one day a guy is head of a bank, next he's in charge of the finances of the nation, then he's in charge of the oversight system of finances and oh isn't it odd how he prevents exposure of corruption and stupidity that leads to financial disasters?

and that S.O.P. of denying things of course prevents legitimate work that would show safety as well as risk
but they don't' care!
rich and powerful will do ANYTHING to keep their position
this article *PROVES* that

 

[Hip]

Or a description of 90% of the discussions on these forums.

Well, there seems to be no shortage of fans of Mike Adams and the seductive philosophy he subscribes to which views Mother Nature as perfect and benign, and diseases as manmade. I think many people find this philosophy attractive because it paints a picture of an ultimately good and nurturing world, and one in which everything would be fine if only the human race had not messed it up. Me, I think Mother Nature is a bitch.