Class IV lasers

[charlie1]

This is different than the 'cold' lasers or low level lasers. Does anyone have any experience with it?
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/723164
My interest in this is because I'm hoping it might help with neck pain issues I've experience for 9 yrs following a severe whiplash (MVA). Then after more research I found information stating that the new class lasers penetrate much deeper than the low level (red lasers etc) therefore causing increased metabolic activity within the cell.

below is an excerpt from this Mercola article - http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/28/k-laser-benefits.aspx

“By stimulating the cytochrome oxidase enzyme, we are utilizing that oxygen in the respiratory chain inside of the mitochondria, producing more ATP for that cell. So regardless of what kind of cell it is, it’s going to function at a higher level. Now, we are not turbocharging. We’re not making your body do anything that it could not normally do. We’re just facilitating the process. We are helping those cells produce the energy that they normally would, so they can function as they normally should

I don't know, maybe I'm just being wanting relief of my neck/headache pain and the dysautonomia so bad that I'm not seeing clearly... is this a scam, the newest ploy to lure money/time/hope from the desperate?

Also, does anyone know anything about this CFS doctor who uses Class IV laser as one of his treatment options? http://www.appletoncfsdoc.com/different.html

Thanks for any input.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

I don't know, maybe I'm just being wanting relief of my neck/headache pain and the dysautonomia so bad that I'm not seeing clearly... is this a scam, the newest ploy to lure money/time/hope from the desperate?.

Yes, it is a scam. The blurb is nonsense.

 

[charlie1]

@Jonathan Edwards . Not want I wanted to hear but thank-you.

 

[Butydoc]

@Jonathan Edwards . Not want I wanted to hear but thank-you.

Hi Charlie1,

I agree with Jonathan Edwards. I have been a wound care specialist for many years and have used various lasers in my practice. From the links you sent me, it sounds like a hard sell and very questionable mechanism of action as reported in that article. No laser that I know of penetrates "several centimeters". Lasers work my having their energy absorbed by a particular chromophore that matches their wavelength. Example would be the treatment of tattoos. The pigment being targeted, absorbs the energy from the laser and causes it to superheat and pulverize. The surrounding tissue is spared except some damage from the heating of the targeted pigment. At least in the wound healing literature, i'm unaware of a healing benefit created by a laser. CO2 lasers can be used to remove necrotic tissue but is a expensive and inefficient method.

Best,
Gary

 

[Hip]

@charlie1
Have you considered or tried a TENS machine? These are very inexpensive and apparently work well for some people with muscle pain:

TENS (transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation) - NHS Choices

 

[perchance dreamer]

I've had both cold and warm laser treatments for pain and inflammation in U.S. chiropractic clinics. Warm laser was far more effective for me, but it's much less common than cold laser.

 

[Sushi]

If a doctor's site has testimonials that means: CAUTION!

 

[charlie1]

No laser that I know of penetrates "several centimeters"

I supposed its a totally different kind of laser than what we're talking about but people have gall stones smashed via laser, right? I certainly don't want a laser being used that would be going that deep in my neck nor smashing up anything! I'm sure that isn't what chiro's and PT's use, I'm kidding. It's just that the literature states that the Class IV is superior to the low level laser because the former is touted as healing ligaments and other soft tissue while the latter is more for treating surface wounds. ???
Honestly, I admit I am very new to this so I may have my info incorrect. Or, I'm describing what I've read properly but what I've read is advertising foo foo.

Have you considered or tried a TENS machine? These are very inexpensive and apparently work well for some people with muscle pain:

Yes, I have used it especially right after my MVA of 9 yrs ago but it only helped somewhat with the pain level. I would love to have healing of the ligaments b/c things have progressed now to the point I must lie perfectly still on my back without moving my head right or left at night or pain starts. As well I can now open my own pillow store as I'm constantly buying 'the flavour of the month' pillow for neck support. I really, really want this neck dealt with once and for all! Hence my need to find the 'right' laser, if indeed laser can even help me with my particular concerns.

Warm laser was far more effective for me, but it's much less common than cold laser.

That's interesting! Thanks for posting your experience!
What is meant by 'warm laser'? Is cold laser the low level type? Can you the name that laser that you found helpful and what it was used for?

If a doctor's site has testimonials that means: CAUTION!

Ha Sushi! Ya, that can be the case a lot of time!!

 

[perchance dreamer]

Hi, @charlie1. I don't know much about it, but I've had warm laser treatments at 2 places in Austin. Here's a description of warm laser from one of the clinics where I've had this done:

_______________________________

K-LASER Therapy: The K-Laser is a Class IV warm laser that is proven to biostimulate tissue repair and growth. This painless application of laser energy promotes increased circulation by drawing oxygen and nutrients to the affected area. This creates the optimal healing environment reducing inflammation, swelling, muscle spasm, stiffness and pain. As the pain decreases and the area returns to normal, function is restored. In the management of acute and chronic pain, Class IV K-Laser Therapy can provide dramatic results. For more info visit k-laserusa.com

________________________________

I don't know if the warm laser treatment I had at another clinic is K-Laser or some other form.

Maybe warm laser is more common now. When I first had treatments about 8 years ago, there were only 5 warm lasers in the U.S.

One of the clinics in Austin that has it is a pain clinic, and the other is a regenerative medicine clinic, where they do things like PRP prolotherapy. I suspect warm laser is more common in places like this rather than chiropractic clinics. I also assume warm laser equipment is more expensive than cold laser.

 

[maryb]

I'll ask my MacTimoney practitioner which kind of laser she uses, She's performed nothing short of a miracle on my old dog, when I say she's given her a new lease of life I really mean that. The vets could do nothing but advise anti-inflammatories, My dog's had a bad back for the past 4/5 yrs, its just got worse and worse, the practitioner said her hips are now straight.
I can't tell you how impressed I am.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

There is nothing warm or cold about a LASER itself. A LASER is just a beam of light. It has strange properties at the quantum mechanics level but they are irrelevant to biology. The main reason for using a LASER for treatment is that you get a very narrow powerful beam of light without having to block out light going in all other directions making the machine hot. It is also a single wavelength, which can be useful for high tech things but not in this context. Because of the narrow beam you can pack an awful lot of energy into a tiny spot - hence using LASERs for cracking stones. (If you used a light bulb and a pinhole you would blow the whole room apart.)

I suspect a warm LASER is one that generates enough energy to actually heat up the tissue. A cold LASER may be lower energy or a wavelength that only gets absorbed by special pigments etc. The advert charlie1 found describes what are basically the effects of heating a tissue up with light. So a good light bulb in a heat lamp would do just as well - or maybe a hot bath!! There is no magic in a LASER - just precision.

 

[Indigophoton]

From the links you sent me, it sounds like a hard sell and very questionable mechanism of action... No laser that I know of penetrates "several centimeters".

Might be a tad worrying to be presented with one that did...