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Transdermal B12 oils

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,095
@picante DH's 1,25 vit D result is due soon, but he definetly can't deal with methyl supps (2x +/+COMT) :thumbdown:
  • Strangely DH got fatigue from transdermal drops
  • perhaps he would do well with the Xdermal oil when he isn't taking any B2
  • he got a rage fit from 1,200mcg Xdermal MB12 + 10mg B2 (and some methionine, but now I know what to do)
 

picante

Senior Member
Messages
829
Location
Helena, MT USA
he got a rage fit from 1,200mcg Xdermal MB12 + 10mg B2 (and some methionine, but now I know what to do)
Is the B2 triggering thiamine deficiency? You helped me figure that one out. I now have just regular B1 and Benfotiamine on hand, and they really help. Even 2 mg of B2 (in a complex) was more than I could handle.
 
Messages
5
I have made the transition from sublingual to oils and I'm currently trying to ramp up my folate to diminish the acne and increased hair loss I've experienced since taking b12.

A quick question, how does everyone take and manage their folate with the oils?

my understanding is that the oils deliver a small amount of b12 throughout a long period of time. If I take too much folate in relation to b12 I get very fatiguey.

Also I was finding relief with 15-20mg of mb12. How would that translate with the combo adb12/mb12 oil?
 

garyfritz

Senior Member
Messages
599
Here's some interesting info I haven't seen before. Amy Yasko says the type of B12 you need/tolerate is driven by your COMT and VDR Taq SNPs. @Gondwanaland, you said your DH is ++ COMT and can't tolerate methyl, and that fits with this chart. I'm +- both COMT and VDR Taq, so Yasko says I should use hydroxy and adenosyl. My initial successes were with methyl, but I've needed methyl & adenosyl for the last 6 months or so. Looks like maybe I should try hydroxy & adenosyl?

izsuty.jpg
 

garyfritz

Senior Member
Messages
599
@christurn89, I was taking 25-30mg/day sublingual mB12 (Country Life 5mg) and not fully controlling my symptoms. For the last 3-4 months I've been using 3 doses/day of the adenosyl/methyl oil and it's working very well for me. I might be able to back off to 2 but I'm in no hurry. I haven't noticed any acne, hair loss, or other unpleasant side effects -- just relief from my symptoms. Maybe the table above would offer you some ideas?

Yes, the oil delivers a slow steady dose over time, roughly 8 hours or so. I've been taking 600mcg folate + 1 squirt of oil in the morning, 600 mcg folate and 2 squirts of oil at bedtime. Plus various other supplements (B vitamins, etc) at the same times.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
I'm COMT +/- and VDR +/-. According to this I should need Hydroxy and AdB12. However, Hydroxy never did anything for me. I'm using MB12 and AdB12 as suggested in Freddd's Protocol.

I'd been using 20mg sublingual Country Life B12. One squirt of MB12 oil replaced it. I'm now using a DIY mixture of sublingualMB12 from Bluebonnet mixed with some body creme. I've had to decrease the 5mg dosage in a single dropperful, as it pushed up my need for folate. So the Bluebonnet seems to be delivering more, or more active, B12 than the former drops I used in this way, California Extracts, which is no longer available.

Someone questioned me on another thread re the absorption of a liquid suspension through the skin. I don't know whether it has to do with the mixture of oils in my creme, or not, but although the liquid and grease don't mix well in my hand, after I've rubbed it into my skin it very quickly absorbs, leaving no residue.
 

Valentijn

Senior Member
Messages
15,786
@garyfritz I am not a big believer in that B12 type table by Dr. Yasko. I think it's an interesting "theory" but I am just skeptical that it's a bulletproof diagnostic tool.
Agreed. In addition to the general theory being unsupported, VDR Taq has little impact, so it seems a bit silly to use that as a basis in any event.
 
Messages
14
I have been on the B12 Ice (Adenosylcobalmin + methylcobalmin w/ Vitamin D3 and Tetrahydro-curcumin) for about 5 days. It was noticeably more potent than the B12-only formula, had more stimulating kick. The first day I tried the B12 Ice oil I forgot I'd taken 5000 I.U of D3 in a gelcap before, and I felt a bit "wired" for most of the day. The D3 in the spray seems like its better absorbed than oral. After a few days I've adjusted to it and it feels normal and good- rather than stimulating. So far I have been able to drop the curcumin & D3 out of my daily pills.

I am currently taking a B12 Ice spray in the A.M. and then a partial dose (couple drops with a medicine dropper) of MeCbl+AdCbl oil in the evening to help keep my methylation cycle rolling. I feel like the main effect of the oil is about about 7 or 8 hours. I can live with one dose a day but feel better with a touch more B12 in the evenings.

What about sweat, swimming and bathing?

Can I take this stuff and go to the beach, bike ride or to hot yoga... or is that kind of a waste?


p.s. anyone else get slightly pink urine sometimes (excess B12 being flushed out)?

----

@MegHurley36 If wanted MeB12 I'd try this Methylcobalmin oil . However, I like the AdB12 + MeB12 mixture a lot.

@Sherpa Thanks! Can you show me the Adb12+MEB12 too then? Sounds like it is something that is more synergistic :)
 

Sherpa

Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie
Messages
699
Location
USA
Re: Sweat & Water. I found out the oils are supposed to be absorbed into the skin a short time after being rubbed throughly into the skin. If you apply it before going to the gym, it should be absorbed by the time you get there and not significantly displaced by sweat.

My feelings on these oils is that they work well and are a good value for the money. My only disappointment is due to a fact that I secretly hope / expected them to be a "cure" for my fatigue issues - a magical potion that would supercharged me in a bulletproof way with every dose. I find that with extended use they just make me feel "normal." They fill in an important part of the puzzle (B12) well, but I can still easily over-exert myself or get fatigued. When I do over-exert myself and I get what I believe are B12 related symptoms: tingling in extremities, leg fatigue while standing up and wanting to recline with my feet up, depression, restless tossing & trashing in bed, lack of sexual vigor - especially after exercise, the oil brings relief.

@MegHurley36 I find that AdCbl + MeCbl Oil works well.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,095
leg fatigue while standing up and wanting to recline with my feet up
Now that is an intriguing symptom that I have been wanting to put my finger on for several years.

About a year ago I read somewhere (don't remember where and if I bookmarked it, the link is lost among my thousands of bookmarks) that it is histamine related, and I confirmed it by getting it much worse upon eating raw green bananas a few months ago. I made a smoothie with 1/2 or 1/4 green banana for DH and me. Then I caught my husband with his feet up (!). Of course it can be that histamines are too much to be dealt with by methylation and require >MB12. I think that during my MB12 honeymoon one year ago I was totally free from this symptom.
 

garyfritz

Senior Member
Messages
599
Results of a small experiment: I've been taking 3x/day doses of the oil. Originally I took one in the morning, one mid-day, one at bedtime. But the mid-day one was a pain, I often got oil on my clothes, etc. So I shifted to 1x morning and 2x at night.

That worked OK, but I wondered if I really needed 3x/day. I wondered if the 2x at bedtime was actually utilized, or if I was providing more than my body could use at once. (If you've seen my previous analogy of the TCII/transcobolamin transport being like "ferry boats" that deliver B12 to the cells, and it doesn't do any good to have 100 cars lined up at the ferry dock if the boat can only carry 10 cars at a time, etc -- I suspected the 2x dose of oil might lining up "too many cars" and that much of it might be wasted.)

So I dropped to 1x morning and 1x at bedtime. Immediately, that same night, I woke up about 2am with agitation and muscle twitches -- my standard night-time symptoms. I had to take another dose of oil to get back to sleep. This happened every night for 4 nights in a row. Then I went back to 2x at bedtime and immediately, that same night, I slept well through the night, and I have for the last 3 night since then.

This says to me:
  • One dose of oil does not fully load up the "ferries." Two doses provide more benefit than one (for me at least), so double-dosing does not waste all of the B12. It's possible that two doses DOES provide more than I can use at once, and some of the second dose is wasted -- but some of the second dose is definitely being used.

  • The theory of "loading up your B12 reserves" does not seem to apply to me. I dropped from 2x to 1x at bedtime and **immediately** had sleep issues. Either I am not storing the excess for some reason, or even 3x/day isn't enough for me to HAVE any excess. Makes me wonder if I should go up to 4x/day.
There was a slight complicating factor in that I also stopped taking 5HTP the same night (another experiment). I think I slept less soundly without the 5HTP so I might have woken more easily with the B12 symptoms. But going back to 2x at night definitely cleared up the B12 symptoms.

1 dose of oil per day is supposed to be what "normal" people need. @ahmo and others do well at that level. For some reason I seem to have a voracious need for B12.

I'm really puzzled why 1 dose in the morning keeps my daytime symptoms (RLS, crawling skin, agitation, flight-or-fight feelings, etc) mostly at bay for 15-16 hours -- but 1 dose at bedtime "runs out" within 3-4 hours. Does my need for B12 skyrocket while I'm asleep!?
 

garyfritz

Senior Member
Messages
599
Well, I have established that the oil is not waterproof. At least not sweat-proof. :) I put some on my stomach this morning, and about an hour later I went out to do some yardwork. Now I have a sweat-soaked T-shirt with a big pink smear on it...
 

heyitisjustin

Senior Member
Messages
162
A quick Google search for "transdermal b12 compounding pharmacy" found many compounding pharmacies that can prepare B12 oils.

http://www.lcrx.com/index.html in Oregon
http://leesilsby.com/f-a-q-on-methylcobalamin in Ohio

Here's a compounding pharmacy locator for all English-speaking countries plus Mexico:
http://www.bullseyelocations.com/pages/CompounderConnect

There are a couple of brands on Amazon. Here's one:

www.amazon.com/Vita-Sciences-Maxasorb-Vitamin-Methylcobalamin/dp/B00I2THMAW

Using a search on Amazon you'd want to be sure you were getting a product meant for vitamin therapy, not skin therapy, such as a "soothing" skin cream.

The price on the Maxabsorb is good. Its hard to imagine it working well with low dose of B12 and the fact that it contains folic acid/niacin. It is much cheaper though... anyone have any experience with Maxabsorb?
 

garyfritz

Senior Member
Messages
599
It's not all that cheap on a per-dose basis. It's 30 doses but each has only 320mcg = 0.32 mg of methyl B12, for $0.67/dose. By comparison the B12oils.com methyl-only product has 0.75 mg methyl for $1/dose, or $0.80/dose if you buy 3 bottles at once. The adenosyl/methyl oil has 0.625 mg methyl AND 1.875 mg adenosyl B12 for the same price.

I need a lot of B12 so I'm using 3x/day doses of the oil. I would need 6 doses of the Maxabsorb to get an equivalent amount of methyl, and the Maxabsorb doesn't have the adenosyl at all. And the adenosyl seems to be critical for me.

Also important to me, the B12oils product doesn't have folic acid.