L methylfolate (metafolin) vs 5-methyltetrahydrofolate (5-MTHF)

[daniariete2000]

Hi,

I read this interesting blog http://drfairchild.blogspot.it/2013/10/mthfr.html?m=1 and my attention was on that point:

"
MTHFR 677 measures:
Avoid folic acid. Use L methylfolate (metafolin) or folinic acid instead, N acetyl cysteine, SAMe, and B12 (methylcobalamin or hydroxocobalamin or adenosylcobalamin).
Methylfolate is best absorbed on an empty stomach. Use only the L form and avoid the D form.
Consider eliminating gluten and dairy.

MTHFR 1298 measures:
BH4 levels can be best increased by 5-methyltetrahydrofolate (5-MTHF) and vitamin C (ascorbic acid). 5-MTHF helps scavenge peroxynitrite (ONOO) and increases vascular BH4 and BH4/total biopterin ratio.
Supplementation of magnesium, copper, vitamin B6, SAMe, B12 (as hydroxocobalamin), vitamin A, a-ketoglutaric acid, tyrosine and 5HTP may also be helpful.
Other helpful measures may include eating a lower protein diet (as ammonia depletes BH4), limiting L-phenylalanine intake.

Those who are compound heterozygous can combine helpful measures for both MTHFR 677 and 1298. "

My questions are :

1) Only (5-MTHF) is good in scavenging peroxynitrite ?

2) Since I'm MTHFR 1298 should I use (5-MTHF) instead metafolin ?

Thanks

Daniele

 

[mgk]

Short answer:
1) In this case, 5-MTHF = L-5-MTHF = L-Methylfolate = Metafolin.
2) You can use any form of L-Methylfolate, such as Quatrefolic or Metafolin. You should avoid methylfolate products that don't say "L" or "6S" (same thing). The particular study that the blog referenced regarding peroxynitrite used Metafolin, so in my opinion, that's your best option.

Long answer:
It's really confusing that two different terms are used in that blog post. You should usually avoid methylfolate products that don't specify that they are "L" or "6S" because they could be racemic mixtures. In other words, a portion of the methylfolate could be the inactive form.

In this case, I looked at the study that was quoted in that blog post to make sure. They use the term 5-MTHF as well, but if you look closer, here's what they say (emphasis mine):

Patients (n=56) undergoing CABG participated in a double-blind, placebo-controlled study in which they received an intravenous infusion of either the natural diastereoisomer of 5-MTHF (Merck Eprova AG, Schaffhausen, Switzerland) or placebo, administered before the CABG.

The natural diastereoisomer of 5-MTHF is L-5-MTHF. They also mention that the supplier was Merck. Merck's L-5-MTHF product is called Metafolin.

 

[daniariete2000]

So why in this post dr lynch says (at point 3) that methylfolate increase nitric oxyd instead scavenge it ?
http://mthfr.net/methylfolate-side-effects/2012/03/01/

Also Martin Pall talks about 5-MTHF (witout L) when he suggests supplement for scavenging peroxynitrite.
This is his suggested supplement
http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/QuatreActiv-Folate-Plus-120-Vegetarian-Capsules-p-336.html

Bye

 

[mgk]

So why in this post dr lynch says (at point 3) that methylfolate increase nitric oxyd instead scavenge it ?
http://mthfr.net/methylfolate-side-effects/2012/03/01/

Nitric oxide and peroxynitrite are not the same thing. I don't know enough about the relationship between nitric oxide, peroxynitrite, BH4, etc., so I don't want to get too deeply into it. My understanding is that an increase in nitric oxide is a good thing for most people with these mutations because nitric oxide is usually low. Excessive nitric oxide is what can cause problems. So you need to find the right amount of methylfolate that makes you feel better through experimentation. That section on Dr. Lynch's site is on ways to quickly alleviate the effects of taking too much methylfolate if you happen to overdo it.

Also Martin Pall talks about 5-MTHF (witout L) when he suggests supplement for scavenging peroxynitrite.
This is his suggested supplement
http://www.allergyresearchgroup.com/QuatreActiv-Folate-Plus-120-Vegetarian-Capsules-p-336.html

I can't speak to the other ingredients in that supplement, but the methylfolate in it is from Quatrefolic which is a form of L-Methylfolate or L-5-MTHF. Some people just like using the shorthand.

Also see this post on Dr. Lynch's site, it may clear up some of the confusion: http://mthfr.net/l-methylfolate-methylfolate-5-mthf/2012/04/05/

 

[ahmo]

I've been working with Martin Pall's protocol.The statement below seems to indicate that we also need to avoid excess nitric oxide, but for me the problem is peroxynitrite. I've employed his supplement strategies to good effect. He now also believes FIR sauna is a very good thing.

Be careful with using folate as a primary intervention in this cycle, unless you're going to balance with MB12, which gets you into a whole methylation protocol. One of the supps he recommends is ADB12, which I've had good results with, but it's not my primary strategy. I've added antioxidants reseveratrol, astaxanthin, flavanoids also use Vit C... high intake of carrots has been the best for me, along with the others.

Pall's supps: http://www.thetenthparadigm.org/therapy.htm
Below is not from Pall, but from Maes, Section 5 on the following link.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3964747/

The pathology stemming from chronically elevated levels of NO and peroxinitrite cannot readily be overstated. At high levels NO becomes a neurotoxin and a facilitator of glutamate-generated exitotoxicity and other NDMA receptor related pathology. Its role in modifying the activity of vital cellular enzymes and signaling pathways coupled with its ability to inhibit the performance of mitochondrial electron transport chain and compromise the production of ATP merely serves to magnify its importance as a source of pathology.

Peroxinitrite is a major regulator of cellular processes and elevated levels lead to chronically elevated inflammatory pathways and inactivation of vital regulatory enzymes responsible for the maintenance of other vital cell systems. The toxic effects of peroxinitrite on energy production are multiple....

 

[daniariete2000]

Peroxynitrite is just the reaction between nitric oxyd and superoxyde. I thing is difficoult methylfolate can increase nitric oxyd and decrease peroxynitryte at the same time....
P.S i made plasma exams and i have very high values of nitric oxyd and peroxynitrite...and low values of active folates..

 

[mgk]

Peroxynitrite is just the reaction between nitric oxyd and superoxyde. I thing is difficoult methylfolate can increase nitric oxyd and decrease peroxynitryte at the same time....
P.S i made plasma exams and i have very high values of nitric oxyd and peroxynitrite...and low values of active folates..

This is what I meant when I said that I don't know enough about the interactions between nitric oxide, peroxynitrite and BH4. There is a complicated relationship between them that isn't entirely clear to me. I know that methylfolate increases BH4, which is why Dr. Lynch says that it increases nitric oxide. Low BH4 causes the NOS's to create superoxides, which react with NO to form peroxynitrites. So if you increase BH4 in someone with low NO, you'll increase NO, reduce superoxides, and reduce peroxynitrites. Sounds good.

If you increase BH4 in someone with high NO, you'll reduce superoxides and peroxynitrites caused by low BH4, but you might end up creating more peroxynitrities because of the even higher NO. You probably need a multi-faceted approach like @ahmo said. I hope someone more knowledgeable in this area will chime in and help you understand this better. I'm curious too.

By the way, I think you would have a better chance of getting help if you created another topic since this discussion has deviated from the original question.

 

[daniariete2000]

Hi, yes this sounds good ))) i think is correct...thanks
I think i have to use hydroxicobalamin instead methylcobalamin if i want to decrease my NO level....this is what martin pall protocol says..