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Putting methylation into perspective: the liver

Gondwanaland

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,094
Some time ago someone (I don't remember who) shared with me a document about the liver. At that time i didn't exactly knew what to do with it and it got lost among the thousands of files in my computer.

I found it again last week and have been studying it. It has been really enlightening since it puts methylation into context. Methylation is just ONE of the many detox paths of the liver (OK, the most crucial).

It seems to me that when we have problems with the methylation protocol, many times another pathway is also in need of supplementation. It is a question of figuring out.

I know this can add to the confusion of our fogged brains, but the more we know about it, the better.

http://balancedconcepts.net/liver_phases_detox_paths.pdf

izzy
 
WoolPippi

WoolPippi

Senior Member
Messages
556
Location
Netherlands
Very interesting, thank you. Aiding the liver has helped me tremendously.

Surprised that "liver" isn't on the Good Foods list ;)

I induce bile by acidifying the stomach acid and since then detox has soared. Acidifying via vinegar, lemon juice or HCL pill right after food.

Thanks again. Good health to you.
 
Changexpert

Changexpert

Senior Member
Messages
112
One day, my parents told me that I am ruining my liver with all the supplements I am putting in. Recently, I realized that they were very wise, as I feel way more refreshed each time I do liver cleanse. It's been two years since I became a supplement junkie and took a deep dive at various health issues I have. After going through many medical websites, I agreed with an opinion that gut health is vital for our immune function. This onset of gut health recovery was a double-edged sword, and my health got worse from unknown reasons.

I've gone through numerous gut health protocols such as h. pylori, candida, parasite, and leaky gut. I've tried so many things for gut and they only made my symptoms worse. One time, I tried soil-based probiotics, and it gave me very unpleasant constipation, hemorrhoids, and dysphagia. Maybe I was going through the infamous herx reaction, but I could never figure out what it was.

I still do not know why my symptoms got worse every time I tried a different gut protocol. One thing I know for sure is that these protocols are not proven. I still think it is theoretically possible for people to indeed get better from a certain gut protocol, but unfortunately, I still have not seen a single success story on any gut protocol. Usual protocol requires you to have a strict diet, whether it be GAPS, paleo, SCD, or what not, and most people who get better collapse right back to where they were when they introduce "problematic foods" again. Calling these protocols a miraculous cure seems like a stretch for me.

The main problem with these generalized protocls is that they only focus on one piece of the puzzle. So many problems are tied together when it comes to a health issue. While someone might indeed thrive on strict diet that kills candida that usually requires leafy greens, others might suffer from it because of high thiol contents of leafy greens. I was in this exact case. Maybe I was really killing off pathogens in the gut, but at the same time, my body was overloaded with dead pathogens (toxins? who knows) and high ammonia, resulting in a double whammy situation. There was no way for my liver and kidney to function properly to flush out all the debris.

I believe that a lot of people on this forum are in a similar situation, where filtering organs cannot flush out methylated toxins properly. I truly think that well functioning liver, kidney, and bowel are one of the missing pieces for the solution a lot of us on this forum is looking for.
 
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ahmo

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@Changexpert Hence the reason for my remark above, Coffee enemas, anyone? And I followed Gondwanaland's suggestion, linked to my blog in my signature. I've found them to be an essential part of my detox regimen. I'm just completing a 2 month intensive purge of Candida and bacteria. During this period I've used CEs daily. Not fun, but effective. There's no way my body could have coped with the overload of toxins and dead stuff on its own. Because of this practice I've never suffered from herx reactions, and have been able to manage the accompanying oxidative stress, free radicals following recommendations of Martin Pall, also linked in my sig.
 
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pogoman

Senior Member
Messages
292
Interesting on the some of the supplements listed that help the liver.
I have non alcoholic fatty liver, a couple months ago I tried milk thistle for it and I crashed on the second day.
Fatigue, unable to think clearly, had to sleep 10 hrs just to function.
Come to find out milk thistle is a good sulfur source, I've had the same reaction from sam-e, methionine and other sulfur supplements in the past.
not sure if its related but I am allergic to Septra, hives and itching.


The coffee enemas sound intriguing if they can help the healing process.
I am leery that the blog states it improves bile production, I've been taking a bile supplement the past few days and now I think I'm having an unpleasant side effect ugghhhh
 
ahmo

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@pogoman I also don't tolerate sulfur/high thiol supps. With the exception of chlorella, which has been part of my detox since the beginning. I don't know why my body appreciates this, when ALA, SAMe, taurine have all been excitotoxic. Re bile production and CEs, I think clearing the liver so bile is handled more efficiently is different from taking anything to directly affect bile production. BTW, I've had great results with herb Chanca Piedra, for supporting liver, gb, kidneys.
 
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pogoman

Senior Member
Messages
292
@Gondwanaland
I didn't know about milk thistle's sulfur content at first, after crashing I researched it and lo and behold sulfur!! lol
I react strongly to all types of mag supplements too, my serum mag levels were tested last month and they are in the middle of good range.
@ahmo I will check out that chanca piedra, thanks!
 
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pogoman

Senior Member
Messages
292
Gondwanaland said:
IBS-D?

http://www.easy-immune-health.com/magnesium-level.html
Click to expand...

Yes, ibs-d. been tested for gluten intolerance and had endo and colonoscopies before, so they just said its ibs.

On magnesium, I've suffered leg muscle cramps and spasms at night for 2 decades.
I ate bananas, took mag and other supplements and they didn't help.
Eventually, I found out I have to drink water when it happens and it will stop literally within a couple of minutes.
This corresponds with why I had all these tests done last month.
I passed a kidney stone on friday the 13th, lots of pain and blood in urine.
Bunch of lab tests, 24 hr urine collection and visit with urologist later, he said I do not drink enough water and pass enough urine.
Because no familial history of stones and labs all normal, he said I just need to drink more water so they don't form.
I also found out taking alot of vitamin C and D can cause kidney stones, guess what vitamin supplements I was taking alot of? lol
So I've stopped the C and D for now.
 
Gondwanaland

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,094
J Inherit Metab Dis. 1991;14(4):421-30.

Detoxification pathways in the liver

Grant DM
Division of Clinical Pharmacology and Toxicology, Hospital for Sick Children, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Abstract
The liver plays an important rôle in protecting the organism from potentially toxic chemical insults through its capacity to convert lipophiles into more water-soluble metabolites which can be efficiently eliminated from the body via the urine. This protective ability of the liver stems from the expression of a wide variety of xenobiotic biotransforming enzymes whose common underlying feature is their ability to catalyse the oxidation, reduction and hydrolysis (Phase I) and/or conjugation (Phase II) of functional groups on drug and chemical molecules. The broad substrate specificity, isoenzyme multiplicity and inducibility of many of these enzyme systems make them particularly well adapted to handling the vast array of different chemical structures in the environment to which we are exposed daily. However, some chemicals may also be converted to more toxic metabolites by certain of these enzymes, implying that variations in the latter may be important predisposing factors for toxicity. Pharmacogenetic defects of xenobiotic biotransformation enzymes, a subclass of inborn errors of metabolism which are manifested only upon drug challenge, introduce marked variation into human populations for the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of therapeutic and toxic agents, and thus may have important clinical consequences for drug efficacy and toxicity.
Click to expand...
 
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ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
WoolPippi said:
Very interesting, thank you. Aiding the liver has helped me tremendously.

Surprised that "liver" isn't on the Good Foods list ;)

I induce bile by acidifying the stomach acid and since then detox has soared. Acidifying via vinegar, lemon juice or HCL pill right after food.

Thanks again. Good health to you.
Click to expand...

@WoolPippi and @Gondwanaland

Have you tried gentian?
 
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ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
Gondwanaland said:
Do you recommend it? I will look into it.
Click to expand...

it's on my list for "next things to try" - along w oxaloacetate, PQQ, and a liver cleanse:

  • 15 mL (1 tbs) of apple cider vinegar four times a day for a week preceding the flush
  • 6 AM – 1 tablespoon magnesium sulfate in one glass of water
  • 8 AM – drank 1/4 cup olive oil blended with three-quarter cups grapefruit juice
  • 12 AM – 1 tablespoon magnesium sulfate in one glass of water
  • 2 PM – 1 tablespoon magnesium sulfate in one glass of water
 
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