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EGCG - what's not to love?

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
Green tea extract makes me anxious and overstimulated, I am guessing due to COMT inhibition. I am COMT +/-. Perhaps those who are -/- would do better on this.
 

maryb

iherb code TAK122
Messages
3,602
Location
UK
It was contra indicated on my nutra hacker report so I wouldn't try it... as well as querticin, curcumin, which I really wanted to try also. I have enough supplements I can't tolerate so no point in buying more. Wish the manufacturers did sampler packs.
 

PeterPositive

Senior Member
Messages
1,426
I am interested in trying it, but still haven't done it.
Green tea doesn't bother me so this may be one of those supplements that I don't have to throw in the garbage bin after the first capsule :)
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,895
EGCG, yes, you have to love it.

http://iospress.metapress.com/content/y38l45u118447510/

I have the green tea extract, so it's not just the EGCG. I don't take it consistently because I usually just drink green tea. But I think I'll start adding some of the extract to my tea and use just the extract in the evenings because it's very low in caffeine.

The EGCG chelates iron ions, and the quercetin and other polyphenols chelate copper ions. This is very helpful if you have Lyme or one of the coinfections.
 

adreno

PR activist
Messages
4,841
It's funny, I was just looking into the T-regulatory effects of EGCG. Since I believe I'm dealing with antiphospholipid antibodies, and my TH2 and TH17 is way outta balance I need to increase t-regs.
How do you know this?


According to this, we should not try to increase T regs:

Unrestrained Treg-cell activity can lead to impaired immunity (R), which means high Tregs will make you will be less capable of fighting most infections.

For example, a high level of Tregs can theoretically make people with CFS and other disorders believed to be caused by a viral infections worse. Indeed, not surprisingly, people with CFS have a higher levels of Tregs. (R)


And we should not take EGCG, as this increases T regs.
Tregs suppress the harmful/activated (effector) Th1, Th2, Th17 cells and their cytokines, eosinophils, mast cells, basophils, IgE’s (switches to IgG4) and the migration of inflammatory cells to tissues. (R)

In addition, they suppress CD8+ T cells, dendritic cells (DCs), monocytes/macrophages, B cells, natural killer cells and natural killer T cells. (R)
@Marco , @alex3619 , any help? I don't know enough immunology to evaluate this information...
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
How do you know this?



According to this, we should not try to increase T regs:




And we should not take EGCG, as this increases T regs.

@Marco , @alex3619 , any help? I don't know enough immunology to evaluate this information...


I'm basing that partly on: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22941119

"The results revealed that aPLs at higher concentrations may induce a significant increase in Th2 and Th17 frequencies, as opposed to a significant decrease in Th1 and Treg frequencies and the Th1/Th2 ratio."

Tregs may leave me vulnerable to infections, but It's basically the same effect as an immune modulator, which I think would be more hardcore.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Good question, Adreno. I don't know. I think in light of the new Lipkin/Hornig findings we'll need to reappraise all immunological data gathered previously.
Yes, if the Lipkin/Hornig finding turns out to be robust and replicable, which I expect it will be, then all prior studies, with perhaps some exceptions due to study design, need to be re-evaluated.

Studies which used appropriate methodology (and testing on whole blood versus isolated cells seems to matter) and focused on recent patients might be OK, as well as those that focus on long term patients. Its the mixed cohorts that are an issue ... they will have hugely heterogeneous results, where the highs and lows will often cancel each other out and look normal. In other words, its about subgroups.

We also know that some of these factors (e.g. cytokines) turn out to be compartmentalized. In the skin, brain etc. the results may differ from what is in blood. Its blood tests that are not reliable. The are a time averaged window on what makes it to the general circulation.

There is also another issue. Is any one of these factors a cause or an appropriate adaptive response? If its causal then treating it is good. If its an inappropriate adaptive response its hard to say what treating it will do. If its an appropriate adaptive response then treating it could be problematic. Worse, it might simultaneously be partially causal and appropriately and inappropriately adaptive.

I don't know enough about green tea extracts, and in particular egcg to comment specifically, and I too busy right now to investigate. I do know that on occasion green tea extracts have had disastrous impact on health, but that generally its helpful. A lot depends, I think, on the individual patient biochemistry, and we vary quite a bit.
 

adreno

PR activist
Messages
4,841
I don't know enough about green tea extracts, and in particular egcg to comment specifically, and I too busy right now to investigate. I do know that on occasion green tea extracts have had disastrous impact on health, but that generally its helpful. A lot depends, I think, on the individual patient biochemistry, and we vary quite a bit.
I wasn't thinking of EGCG specifically, but more generally about Tregs in relation to ME/SEID, but I think you answered that, too.

We just don't know at this time, whether increasing or decreasing Tregs is a good idea.

Immunosenescence, as Hornig suggested, is likely characterized by higher levels of Tregs and weaker immune response. Higher Tregs seems to increase chance of cancer, and this is more prevalent in old age (immunosenescence) as well.

So from the looks of it, a cautious guess would be that long duration patients need a stronger immune response, not weaker. But it is still unclear to me how Tregs fit together with autoantibodies and microglial priming. Many patients also report problems with mast cells and allergies, which would point to hyperimmunity.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
I sometimes find that taking EGCG 300 mg quickly boosts my mood (possibly by EGCG's ability to increase dopamine by inhibiting the reuptake of dopamine), and has some beneficial effects on my brain fog as well.

However, there always seems to be a comedown in my elevated mood later in the day, that feels similar to a caffeine comedown. Not sure why.


Note that EGCG has an anti-folate action: EGCG inhibits the enzyme dihydrofolate reductase (DHFR). DHFR converts dihydrofolate and folic acid into tetrahydrofolate.

DHFR also recycles BH2 back to BH4 (tetrahydrobiopterin).
 
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adreno

PR activist
Messages
4,841
Green tea extract makes me anxious and overstimulated, I am guessing due to COMT inhibition. I am COMT +/-. Perhaps those who are -/- would do better on this.
So I finally tried it, and just like you I found it way too stimulating, in a very unpleasant way. I'm also COMT +/-.

I guess I'll stick with turmeric. Sigh.
 

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
So I finally tried it, and just like you I found it way too stimulating, in a very unpleasant way. I'm also COMT +/-.

I guess I'll stick with turmeric. Sigh.

Sorry to hear. I've just started turmeric and early indications are good.