Managing Potassium Insufficency - Pro tips?

[Sherpa]

update: I realized I was having symptoms of HIGH potassium from all this supplementing. I may not have even had a potassium problem in the first place!

----------



Methylation supplements make me crave potassium. Even high dose B12! I spot the symptoms of hypokalemia too late, rush to take more potassium to handle the emergency, and then get symptoms that suggest potassium overdose. If I go up to or over about 2000mg potassium... I get a hangover feeling, low energy, 'cloudy' feeling in kidneys the next day. Bleh

At a baseline, no methylation supplements, I can comfortably handle up to about 1300mg a day of potassium (K) spread through the day in MTHFRade (electrolyte drink) with no problems. I just feel better and less achy with electrolyte support.

My new game plan is to take a lower baseline electrolyte supplement of about 600mg K sipped throughout the day and eat a higher potassium diet - watching for low K symptoms very vigilantly and catch them early.

If I spot symptoms of low K, I plan to sip 300mg of potassium gluconate in a glass slowly, rather than desperately chugging it.

Any diet, potassium dosing / timing, or serum potassium level estimating tips?

Is there a recommended meter or heart technique where I can measure... rather than guess how much I need?

-Sherpa

 

[Sherpa]

the long version:

---

I am having uncomfortable and potentially dangerous reactions to potassium (K), creating roadblocks to methylation treatment.

• I almost certainly have low cellular / body potassium, although past serum tests are norma
  
  
• I had bad hypoglycemia so I was on a low carb (low potassium) diet for the past couple years. It worked great to balance blood sugar but maybe worsened my cellular potassium levels
  
  
• I discovered that drinking METHFRade / LoSalt solutions relieved my fibro and ache symptoms, before trying methylation supplements. I learned that I could comfortably sip 1350mg of K per day while working my desk job lifestyle. My body seemed happy and refreshed to have it.
  
  
• Once I started a little methylfolate, my K demands went way up suddenly. I didn't spot the symptoms until they were more severe and I suddenly awoke thrashing and twitching in my bed,achy and mentally impaired. I desperately drank "more" potassium... maybe 600mg more (~2000mg day, total supplemental K)... and it relieved the hypokalemia symptoms. However, I wake up the next morning with a "hangover" feeling and a cloudy sensation in my lower back / kidney area.
• I get a similar reaction with high dose B12 only, no methylfolate. Last night I took B12 Oil spray for the first time, felt awesome for about 8 hours and then felt quite achy, blurry & depressed. Didn't consider potassium needs cause there was not folate involved - I just had a 560mg K in an electrolyte drink during the day. I thought it was "paradoxical B12 insufficency" an took some Enzy, went to bed. I woke up at midnight.. twitching, thrashing and tingling. This time I put 270 mg NOW Potassium Gluconate in a glass and sipped it slowly. It worked for a while, then symptoms came back and I drank an additional 270mg. This worked and I was able to sleep. Total intake 1100mg K, and woke up with mild kidney cloudyness and mild depression / unfocusedness.

I read on the bottle of NOW Potassium Gluconate not to exceed 4 servings a day (1080mg K) and Andy Cutler says not to exceed 1000mg. I understand these warnings because I had had bad reaction (hangovers, coludy kidney feeling, worse symptoms) from going above 2000mg K per day - even when my system was craving and screaming for it.

I decided to try and get more K from my diet, eating lots of green bananas, mushrooms, veggie juice, the occasional potato or potato chips.,. and reducing my average 'baseline' daily supplemental intake of potassium from from 1350mg K to 600mg of K. I am hoping this ... along with being much more vigilant and prepared at spotting and supplementing K when the symptoms are early rather than later... will protect me from 'overdosing' on K.

Questions:

1. Is it realistic to think eating a high potassium diet for months could raise the long term cellular potassium levels in a PWC (person with chronic fatigue) - and make low potassium episodes less frequent and severe during future methylation attempts?
   
   
2. Can one eat enough bananas, carrots and spinach in a day that they wouldn't need to supplement chemical potassium on methylfolate.... or is it just wishful hippie thinking?
   
   
3. Is it better to sip a potassium drink all day (MTHFRade, LoSalt, E Lyte)? Or is it better to just drink water and save potassium supplements for the moment when you notice signs of low K?
   
   
4. Is straight potassium powder better for managing low K symptoms than mixtures that contain sodium and magnesium?
   
   
5. I read a thread that says B12 raises need for magnesium. Does increased magnesium cause need for more potassium?
   
   
6. will lowering intake of my NatureMade B-complex - e.g. - cutting it in half, make potassium craving less severe?
   
   
7. Do you ever get a feeling of kidney area cloudiness / fatigue from supplementing potasium? Is this normal or some kind of really bad sign?

Thanks for reading and sharing - I really appreciate it!

 

[tropicalkid]

Methylation supplements make me crave potassium. Even high dose B12! I spot the symptoms of hypokalemia too late, rush to take more potassium to handle the emergency, and then get symptoms that suggest potassium overdose. If I go up to or over about 2000mg potassium... I get a hangover feeling, low energy, 'cloudy' feeling in kidneys the next day. Bleh

At a baseline, no methylation supplements, I can comfortably handle up to about 1300mg a day of potassium (K) spread through the day in MTHFRade (electrolyte drink) with no problems. I just feel better and less achy with electrolyte support.

My new game plan is to take a lower baseline electrolyte supplement of about 600mg K sipped throughout the day and eat a higher potassium diet - watching for low K symptoms very vigilantly and catch them early.

If I spot symptoms of low K, I plan to sip 300mg of potassium gluconate in a glass slowly, rather than desperately chugging it.

Any diet, potassium dosing / timing, or serum potassium level estimating tips?

Is there a recommended meter or heart technique where I can measure... rather than guess how much I need?

-Sherpa

Hi @Sherpa,

My potassium food diet tips would be eat bananas that are well spotted. They will constipate you otherwise as the starches aren't developed to be digestable before spotting.

Eat only organic potatoes, they are said to be highly toxic with metals, etc if not. Also it's best to not consume them often if they are "browned" as that is when they are high in acrylamide, which is nasty stuff. Also, the nightshade properties dissipate when they are skinned, as most of those chemicals are in the skin. IMHO, you can't eat too many spuds

The thai coconuts are a God send, I don't eat the meat too often, my dog does enjoy it

Good luck!

 

[tropicalkid]

the long version:

---

I am having uncomfortable and potentially dangerous reactions to potassium (K), creating roadblocks to methylation treatment.

• I almost certainly have low cellular / body potassium, although past serum tests are norma
  
  
• I had bad hypoglycemia so I was on a low carb (low potassium) diet for the past couple years. It worked great to balance blood sugar but maybe worsened my cellular potassium levels
  
  
• I discovered that drinking METHFRade / LoSalt solutions relieved my fibro and ache symptoms, before trying methylation supplements. I learned that I could comfortably sip 1350mg of K per day while working my desk job lifestyle. My body seemed happy and refreshed to have it.
  
  
• Once I started a little methylfolate, my K demands went way up suddenly. I didn't spot the symptoms until they were more severe and I suddenly awoke thrashing and twitching in my bed,achy and mentally impaired. I desperately drank "more" potassium... maybe 600mg more (~2000mg day, total supplemental K)... and it relieved the hypokalemia symptoms. However, I wake up the next morning with a "hangover" feeling and a cloudy sensation in my lower back / kidney area.
• I get a similar reaction with high dose B12 only, no methylfolate. Last night I took B12 Oil spray for the first time, felt awesome for about 8 hours and then felt quite achy, blurry & depressed. Didn't consider potassium needs cause there was not folate involved - I just had a 560mg K in an electrolyte drink during the day. I thought it was "paradoxical B12 insufficency" an took some Enzy, went to bed. I woke up at midnight.. twitching, thrashing and tingling. This time I put 270 mg NOW Potassium Gluconate in a glass and sipped it slowly. It worked for a while, then symptoms came back and I drank an additional 270mg. This worked and I was able to sleep. Total intake 1100mg K, and woke up with mild kidney cloudyness and mild depression / unfocusedness.

I read on the bottle of NOW Potassium Gluconate not to exceed 4 servings a day (1080mg K) and Andy Cutler says not to exceed 1000mg. I understand these warnings because I had had bad reaction (hangovers, coludy kidney feeling, worse symptoms) from going above 2000mg K per day - even when my system was craving and screaming for it.

I decided to try and get more K from my diet, eating lots of green bananas, mushrooms, veggie juice, the occasional potato or potato chips.,. and reducing my average 'baseline' daily supplemental intake of potassium from from 1350mg K to 600mg of K. I am hoping this ... along with being much more vigilant and prepared at spotting and supplementing K when the symptoms are early rather than later... will protect me from 'overdosing' on K.

Questions:

1. Is it realistic to think eating a high potassium diet for months could raise the long term cellular potassium levels in a PWC (person with chronic fatigue) - and make low potassium episodes less frequent and severe during future methylation attempts?
   
   
2. Can one eat enough bananas, carrots and spinach in a day that they wouldn't need to supplement chemical potassium on methylfolate.... or is it just wishful hippie thinking?
   
   
3. Is it better to sip a potassium drink all day (MTHFRade, LoSalt, E Lyte)? Or is it better to just drink water and save potassium supplements for the moment when you notice signs of low K?
   
   
4. Is straight potassium powder better for managing low K symptoms than mixtures that contain sodium and magnesium?
   
   
5. I read a thread that says B12 raises need for magnesium. Does increased magnesium cause need for more potassium?
   
   
6. will lowering intake of my NatureMade B-complex - e.g. - cutting it in half, make potassium craving less severe?
   
   
7. Do you ever get a feeling of kidney area cloudiness / fatigue from supplementing potasium? Is this normal or some kind of really bad sign?

Thanks for reading and sharing - I really appreciate it!

Also, if you would like to see some people really upping their potassium through foods, you might think about checking in on the 30bananasaday crowd. Quite a youthful, naive group really but they do know bananas.

 

[Gondwanaland]

http://www.acu-cell.com/znk.html
In my understanding you need to balance potassium with both synergists and antagonists.

Potassium Synergists:
Calcium, copper, iodine, nickel, Vitamin B6,Vitamin C.

Potassium Antagonists / Inhibitors:
Manganese, magnesium, sodium, chromium, sulfur, phosphorus, cobalt, niacin / niacinamide, folic acid, PABA, Vitamin B12, choline, lecithin, alcohol. Serum Potassium: Insulin, baking soda (acidosis).
Note: Magnesium is a potassium antagonist at low, or normal sodium levels. However, with high sodium levels, extra magnesium may be required to reduce potassium loss by helping to lower excessively high sodium levels.

Potassium Low Levels / Deficiency - Symptoms and/or Risk Factors:
Irregular and/or rapid heart beat, palpitations, high blood pressure (hypertension), shortness of breath, asthma, heart disease, chest pains,stroke, paralysis, muscle spasms / weakness, bladder weakness, edema (water retention), kidney disease, liver disease, endometriosis, frequent menstrual cycles, high blood sugar, weight gain, fatigue, impotence.

Potassium High levels / Overdose / Toxicity / Negative Side Effects - Symptoms and/or Risk Factors:
Irregular or slow heart beat, low blood pressure,kidney disease, cystitis - bladder infections or burning, higher risk of several types of cancer, infrequent menstrual cycles, muscle spasms orcramps, ovarian cysts (right), joint / back pains, weakened immune system, impotence, anxiety, insomnia, irritability, reactive hypoglycemia, coma.

I strongly recommend reading the book Potassium Nutrition.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Sherpa check your urine pH.
Metabolic acidosis induces hyperkalemia by pulling potassium from inside the cells. So I suppose you get hyper and hypo symptoms.

 

[goonie8473]

Sherpa, I have a lot of the same questions you do regarding potassium! You also mentioned that you had hypoglycemia and was on a low-carb diet- do you still have blood sugar problems? It seems that potassium symptoms seem to be exacerbated by hypoglycemia (or vice versa) - there is definitely some connection with low blood sugar. I'm also finding that it's challenging to incorporate more K+ foods while staying low carb/sugar.

 

[physicsstudent13]

I would run to several doctors or the ER if you are having neurological symptoms
you need to get blood testing of potassium and other levels.... my levels of potassium were 3-3.5 which are very low.
I started this detoxification with 4000mcg of methyfolate, high doses of b12 and b complex, but I am having terrible blurry vision and trouble speaking which I fear are from multiple sclerosis
I don't really understand it, my nerves may have totally destroyed by pernicious anemia and low iron and then I had some painful vein clotting as from possibly high homocysteine levels

I would go very slowly but your potassium may be low on blood testing. if you have some diabetes or possible metabolic syndrome do you have to alter your supplements?

I was hypokalemic and took 12 potassium pills but I don't know if it was too little or too much, my heart feels ok and each pill is 595mg of potassium gluconate or 2% of the RDA. you may need more magnesium to absorb potassium

the potassium citrate may be more bioavailable but too much can cause terrible Heart Damage and arrythmias.

anyway detoxification and methylation seems to be heavily based on genetic testing I don't know how you can do this safely without a doctor and the doctors that practice this talk about 'energy patches'

there seems to be only one doctor who seems somewhat knowledgeable about methylation and it seems only to be specifically in relation to autism and that is Amy Yasko. I'm not sure I would really trust what this ben lynch says.

 

[Sherpa]

Hey folks! I am pretty sure I was developing symptoms of HIGH POTASSIUM due to taking potassium supplements inappropriately, electrolyte drinks, lots of high potassium foods.

symptoms of low potassium and high potassium are erily similar.

It's bizarre that I read so much on here about "low potassium" I assumed every symptom must be the dreaded low potassium. I am sure low potassium is an issue, especially on milligram doses of methylfolate, but it's not always the culprit.

Treating for "low potassium" when you have normal potassium and something else - like MAO A dysfunction or blood sugar imbalance or ??? - can be dangerous!!!

@goonie8473 I have eaten consciously for blood sugar balance - no junk ever, pretty much - for a couple years and absolutely no more hypoglycemia issues

 

[ahmo]

@physicsstudent13 I've found Ben Lynch to be excellent. He keeps developing his understanding of MTHFR and beyond. His video and audiio presentations demonstrate someone who keeps digging deeper and broadening his understandings of the biochemistry and how to treat it.

 

[Sherpa]

@physicsstudent13 I've found Ben Lynch to be excellent. He keeps developing his understanding of MTHFR and beyond. His video and audiio presentations demonstrate someone who keeps digging deeper and broadening his understandings of the biochemistyr and how to treat it.

I think he has some great info but he is also a supplement seller (of great quality supplements). I don't have any reason to say he's unethical or misleading... just that he has a financial interest in recommending certain products (like MTHFRade or Optimal electrolytes). I take everything that supplement marketers say with a grain of salt.

 

[ahmo]

@Sherpa He might have interest in a line of supps, but his lists and recommendations have nothing to do with his products. They are generic recommendations. See especially the slides in the last 20" of his 2014 vid.

Martin Pall vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-...yer_detailpage&x-yt-cl=84503534&v=6A7r1gemjto

 

[Sherpa]

I'm a major fan of Dr. Lynch's work and supplements. Thanks for the video!

 

[ahmo]

@Sherpa I thought you were referring to Pall's supps, not Lynch. whoops. Yes, Lynch is not shy about the lines he's developed.

 

[physicsstudent13]

what kind of benefits have you really had from Dr. Lynch's work? Isn't he only a naturpathic doctor not an scientific evidence based one?
I got started on this whole detox stuff and I may have been horribly damaged by it, I couldn't speak or understand people and had terrible fog and was going blind in both eyes with blurry vision. I was taking high dose b12 and I think about 3500-4000mcg of mfolate. I noticed after my last 2ml b complex injection that I was very foggy and tired. I took 12 potassium pills 595mg pot gluc and 25mg of prednisone in case I have multiple sclerosis and I slept on the sleep meds I have and the ventilator and I feel much better.

 

[tropicalkid]

what kind of benefits have you really had from Dr. Lynch's work? Isn't he only a naturpathic doctor not an scientific evidence based one?
I got started on this whole detox stuff and I may have been horribly damaged by it, I couldn't speak or understand people and had terrible fog and was going blind in both eyes with blurry vision. I was taking high dose b12 and I think about 3500-4000mcg of mfolate. I noticed after my last 2ml b complex injection that I was very foggy and tired. I took 12 potassium pills 595mg pot gluc and 25mg of prednisone in case I have multiple sclerosis and I slept on the sleep meds I have and the ventilator and I feel much better.

The way you prefaced that question regarding Ben Lynch strikes me as a little odd. I am new around here, I hope I'm not to assume these boards diminish non MD practitioners. If I misread your question, please disregard. Thanks

TropicalKid

 

[physicsstudent13]

the symptoms of hyperkalemia include malaise palpitations muscle weakness, hyperventilation
I am really terribly damaged by this methylation junk science.

 

[physicsstudent13]

@tropical what the heck are you talking about this guy isn't even a medical doctor,
I HAVE TERRIBLE DAMAGE FROM THIS CRAP SCIENCE

 

[ahmo]

what kind of benefits have you really had from Dr. Lynch's work? Isn't he only a naturpathic doctor not an scientific evidence based one?

Ben Lynch has done more than anyone, as far as I know, to advance the understanding of MTHFR, folate metabolism, and, like I said above, an ever widening and deepening relationship of other SNPs and associated cycles. I don't believe he's doing any research, but digging deep to make information available to practitioners and patients. No medical doctor has helped me. And I don't see much evidence in these forums of people who've gotten very far with medical doctors. Whose crap science were you following to get so sick?

 

[physicsstudent13]

well I do feel my internist and pulmonologist and neurologist and GI and infectious disease MDs were too conservative and I should have been treated more aggressively and I ran into a lot of arrogant nasty doctors
I think the B12 is good but why didn't Freddd give dosing for the potassium I was hypokalemic around 3.0-3.5 in the ER

anyway I wish I had been treated with vitamin injections AS A CHILD, I was probably a bit autistic and now it's too late. I was anemic and treated only with a short course of iron. my parents were idiots and abusive