More UK government pressure on sick & disabled in prospect?

[OverTheHills]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31464897
UK government to" review whether people with obesity, alcohol or drug problems should have benefits cut if they refuse treatment to make them fit for work."

"About 100,000 people with [obesity, drug and alcohol problems] long-term, yet treatable, conditions are claiming sickness benefits.

Prof Dame Carol Black will consider whether the welfare system fails to encourage them to get treatment.

The PM said it was unfair for workers to fund those who refuse such help.

How long before it is helpfully suggested that CBT/GET 'treatment' is mandatory for PWME/SEID receiving benefits?
In my view the UK government has failed in its mission to declare almost all sick/disabled people fit for work, so now it is looking for additional ways to disqualify and discourage people from claiming their entitlement. Start with the soft targets of obesity, drugs and alcohol which are seen as self inflected and therefore undeserving.
Rant over


OTH

 

[taniaaust1]

Maybe thou putting many people in rehab could help a few of the ones with addictions. It doesnt say it will cut them off for unsuccessful treatment, just if they dont try to seek treatment, so this could give those the motivation who do want to give up something but need a bit of a push.

I do think thou it would cost your gov a heap to put a ton of people in rehab and its unlikely to succeded as addictions are usually only cured if people want to give up the addiction. So your gov is in for a big let down.
...............

As far as forcing those who have ME/CFS to get GET and CBT or have benefits cut off, that line of thinking actually got my disability pension application declined in my state of Australia.

One of the occassions I appealled for it after a previous knockback and and got knocked back again was cause I hadnt had treatment .. GET and CBT!!.

What was even more irronic about this at the time was there was no ME/CFS specialists here even recommending it and we dont have clinics for that like they do in UK.

I do hope UK gov never tries something like that.

 

[Artstu]

It does at times seem that some people are rewarded for being lazy. The loss of their expensive mobility cars or payments which add thousands of pounds to their income, is a great disincentive for them turn around their life and lose the weight and get fit.

Of course the reward for the individual is enormous in terms of self-worth, accomplishment and vastly improved health. Sadly all some would see is the loss of their privileges for being so unfit.

 

[taniaaust1]

Obesity is treatable even if a person cant control their eatting habits, via stomach stapling. Not a nice thing to go throu but wouldnt it be better to have that and not be risking a heart attack due to being so obese that one cant even work.

 

[eafw]

Quoting the PM from the BBC article: "It is not fair to ask hardworking taxpayers to fund the benefits of people who refuse to accept the support and treatment that could help them get back to a life of work."

These statements aren't genuine attempts to save money and they will do nothing to help people. They are designed quite deliberately to get the stupid masses to turn on the vunerable and support the "reforms".

There is enough money to fund a decent health and welfare service if there was the political will, but it's actually the undeserving elite and not the "undeserving poor" that are the real problem. This is where taxpayers money is going - disproportionately into the pockets and lifestyles of bankers, executives, MPs and their mates, various other corporations and so on.

Note as well, that many if not most of those 100,000 with so-called treatable issues will be actually desperate for help but there isn't that much available (or accesible) in practice.

 

[alex3619]

This is demonizing. They know that obesity and alcoholism are difficult to treat, and that good options for treating them are not often available. This is an excuse to axe benefits, and to use a demonizing strategy to gain electoral support. Its about power and money, not doing what is right.

Now if they wanted to put money into more detox centers etc., .... oh, wait, spend more money?

 

[SilverbladeTE]

Now if they said they'd stop folk getting benefits if they were Jewish, gay or Russian, maybe then folk would get it into their heads what this is all about and where it leads.

Even if these vermin have no intent to mass murder, the inevitable result of demonizing people, making society more hateful, not prosecuting the enormous numbers of child rapists and tax evaders who are powerful, will result in a spiral of ever greater evil until hundreds of thousands or millions are dead. Always happens.
Either society turns on the scum at the top and jails or exterminates their arses out of existence, or those vermin at the top will exterminate those at the bottom.
Chose!

 

[peggy-sue]

There is some fascinating information all laid out and easy to comprehend showing exactly who the true scroungers sponging off the taxpayer really are, and how much they scrounge compared to those on benefits here;

http://www.globaljustice.org.uk/dangerous-delusions

 

[Marco]

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Of course making it work is the issue.

 

[peggy-sue]

It only sounds "reasonable" to those who are completly ignorant about addiction.

We haven't got the resources to treat addicts (food, alcohol or other drugs) who do want treatment, far less the hundreds of thousands more who are not yet at the right time for it!

 

[MeSci]

It only sounds "reasonable" to those who are completly ignorant about addiction.

We haven't got the resources to treat addicts (food, alcohol or other drugs) who do want treatment, far less the hundreds of thousands more who are not yet at the right time for it!

'Rehab' isn't appropriate for everyone. I have been an addict, and was terrified of being sent away for treatment. I needed to stay in familiar surroundings - in my flat with my cats. This fear prevented me from admitting my problem to my doctor for a long time. I was still working, but that delay may have cost me my job - I lost it in the end due to too much time off sick, even though I had managed to kick the habit and my sick record was improving by then. I had finally been persuaded - by my single-headed dealer - to go to my doctor, who helped me with tranquillisers - also not the right solution for everyone, but it was enough to get me off the addiction.

I wonder who will tell obese claimants about what is required of them. Presumably not the Job Centre workers who are themselves obese? Or obese doctors?

 

[OverTheHills]

@Marco Hugs
Alas I used to think like you, but after years of reading about the dreadful ATOS/ESA 'reforms' and spotting the UK governments conflation of the global financial crisis with targeting so-called benefit scroungers unfortunately I have changed my mind. I don't see this as a party political issue. The previous so-called Labour government were responsible for starting many of these 'reforms' that are deeply unfair in practice, though not in theory.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04yk7h6
This programme from a couple of weeks back has truly shocking evidence about how the people who experience sanctions (removal of benefit) are the vulnerable who cannot cope with the system . The welfare cheats are capable and careful to avoid such problems. (all this will be no surprise to those who read the Guardian).

"Benefit sanctions are supposed to be part of a system helping people back to work. But critics say they penalise the vulnerable and are among the reasons for the growing use of food banks. So how fair is the Government's system of withholding state payments for those who don't comply with welfare rules?

Allan Urry hears from whistleblowers who allege some JobCentrePlus staff are setting claimants up to fail in order to meet internal performance targets. Why did a recovering amputee lose his benefits because he didn't answer the phone?"

 

[peggy-sue]

I'm an addict too and I agree, rehab isn't for everyone. The correct way has to be found for each individual.
And it needs to be in place, waiting for the moment they are ready for it, in order to embrace it.

It's just a waste of resources forcing somebody into rehab or any other sort of treatment, when the timing isn't right.

I did have to get away from my surroundings, (my home) it was a trigger for setting me off.
Jennie (my cat at that time) and I moved in with Michael for a fortnight before I went in to rehab.
I could even leave his booze alone when I was there.

 

[Marco]

@Marco Hugs
Alas I used to think like you,

You have no idea how I think.

As I said the proposal isn't unreasonable - the devil's in the detail.

 

[peggy-sue]

The proposal is completely unreasonable.
And the details will be the devil's.

 

[OverTheHills]

Marco I was trying to be friendly rather than confrontational. I do confrontational badly, and it appears I do friendly badly as well.
I apologise for implying I know how you think (I didn't mean that, I meant, I would have agreed with your post once).

• I hope I have not offended you
• everyone has a right to their opinions
• I value Marcos posts on PR.
• sorry for confusion everyone

perhaps I should leave posting to other people, particularly on hot topics
OTH

 

[CantThink]

I wonder who will tell obese claimants about what is required of them. Presumably not the Job Centre workers who are themselves obese? Or obese doctors?

So true!!! I think it's ironic when the nurses weighing and measuring me, and then calculating my BMI are obese... It seems a tad ridic.

 

[CantThink]

I apologise for implying I know how you think (I didn't mean that, I meant, I would have agreed with your post once).

I didn't read that as implying you knew how Marco thought.... I took it as you used to think the same thing before you had an experience that changed your mind.

 

[Valentijn]

So true!!! I think it's ironic when the nurses weighing and measuring me, and then calculating my BMI are obese... It seems a tad ridic.

It should be coming more and more apparent that there is no simple cure for obesity. In some cases it's caused by an unhealthy diet, but that doesn't seem to case for most. And simple calorie reduction doesn't seem to work well for most.

They're trying to reduce complex problems (obesity and addiction) into simple flaws of character which can supposedly be easily remedied by behavioral changes. But that isn't the case, and there's probably a great deal of research showing that it isn't the case.

 

[MeSci]

I didn't read that as implying you knew how Marco thought.... I took it as you used to think the same thing before you had an experience that changed your mind.

That's how I read it too.